C&O / GAP Forum

Planning a trip next summer with my boys ages 10,12. Any thoughts or concerns on riding with kids? We are all in excellent riding shape and have proper gear and mechanical know how. I am concerned a bit with safety and trail conditions, especially on the C&O. My boys can easily ride 60 plus miles in a day, but that's on paved trails. I'd like to average 50 miles a day but feel that may be too much on non -paved trails. How rough or smooth is the C&O? Is it safe to travel with kids? Thanks, Joe

It's plenty safe, but 50/day for four days adds up. I have seen teenagers struggle at a little more milage than that. Are you camping? I think its a bit ambitious for the boys, but you know them best. You didn't say if you are doing the GAP as well. That makes it a little tougher. Good Luck

Just finished the C&O on 9/29. It varies quite a bit on the roughness scale. Some places hard-pack, relatively smooth ride for non-asphalt. Some places I was only doing 7-8 mph because of the roughness (stones, roots, ruts) and puddles/mud. Assume they'll be carrying packs too.. that is a factor in how fast you can/want to go. I think it's perfectly safe for your kids though.

The plan is to ride both the C and O and the Gap. They wouldn't be carrying anything other than water. I will be hauling everything on my XtraCycle. I am planning on bringing my ultra light tent just in case, but plan on staying at hotels etc every night. The ride is ambitious enough so we won't be camping on this trip. The roughness of the C and O is bothersome....

The C&O isn't that rough that you can't do 10 mph consistantly. My wife and I averaged 10.7 and did considerably more milage , we are in our late 50'S.

10 mph pace is what I'd hope for. We're under no pressure to finish the whole trail but that's the plan the boys and I have. We'll be in 3 bikes with 3 different size tires, 700X32, 26X1.5, 26X1.75. Any issues with riding those street oriented tires on the C and O??

Thanks for all of the replies, Joe

700x32 is the thinnest I would run personally I run 35. The 26x tires are fine.

Joe, I'm planning the same trip with my boys (11 & 15) next summer. It's our third year doing extended bike trips both on road and trail (first time on the GAP and C&O though). We haul our tent and all the gear - a trailer for me and panniers for the boys and the camping is a big part of the fun. My boys can do 60 or 70 miles loaded on the road. 50 miles on packed lime surface trail is about equivalent to that - pedaling on the softer trail surface is much more tiring. I usually plan around 40 miles a day but vary it based on the boy's attitude. We like to set up camp by 4 so they have time to goof off and wind down. This trip looks to have lots of great side trip opportunities like Antietam so we'll take our time.

Good luck. Maybe we'll see you there!

Marshall

Oh, one more thing. My youngest has very narrow road tires on his little road bike. Handles the packed lime fine but make sure you have at least on spare since you can rip the lightweight tires up. 26's should be fine.

Marshall, ideally I'd like for all three of us to be riding the same size tires and that could change I suppose. I am worried about the C and O being rough. My boys currently have both mountain bikes and street bikes. The mountain bikes are lighter than their street bikes but the street bikes have racks and fenders which I think would be good for this trip. I go back and forth on what bikes they should ride, my soon to be 12 year old is riding a 25 lb Schwinn Homegrown hard tail, my youngest is currently on a 24 inch Marin that I converted to a single speed. Their street bikes are rigid and are closer to 30 lbs. 5-10 lbs is a big deal over that distance. I just want our first endeavour in big mileage touring to be a good one, I'm probably I er thinking it. What part of the summer are you planning on riding the trail?
Joe

Joe,

Agree it is best to have a single tire size to spare but hard to do with smaller kids bikes. Those tires can be hard to come by on the road too so you definitely want to have one of each. You won't need them, but if you do ...

Knobbly mountain bike tires take a lot more effort and won't provide any real advantage on packed lime trails. The kind they offer stock on hybrid bikes are a pretty good compromise. When we rode the KATY 2 years ago my 9 year old had a beat up mountain bike with smooth tires and he did fine. Whatever they ride should be what they are most comfortable on. I put racks on all so they can have a small pack with snacks and water and their own stuff. Water can be critical - I've been caught low before and it can get ugly fast.

Here is our journal from this summer's tour with some ideas on our load and on riding with kids.

We are waiting to figure out schedules, I'm hoping to make it in early/mid June but it could be anytime.

Marshall

Oops. Looks like I can't post links. Our last year's journal is at crazyguyonabike com. Just look for mcparsons. Good luck.

We have done the Pitt/DC trip with my grandchildren 70 miles per day is difficult for 10 year old, 14 year old handles it fine. The light bike makes a lot of difference. Good luck! Will be out there again on fathers day weekend. Maybe we will see ya!

I just want to thank everyone for their input on riding with my kids. As of 7-18 my boys and I completed our ride. We started in Connellsville to shorten the ride a bit but made the entire trip in 5 and half days on the trail. I rode a converted mtb with an Xtracycle attachment and 26X1.75 inch hybrid tires, my 12 yr old had a hybrid with 700X32's and my 10 yr old road a touring bike(drop bars etc) with 700X28's! We were warned on the trail that the C and O was wet so we purchased some 32's in Hancock for the touring bike but never installed them, didn't need them. Our average day was about 46 miles with a 67 mile push on the last day to make it to Georgetown a day earlier than planned. We did a mix of campgrounds, trailside sites and one night at a motel in Frostburg. Never had any issues, complaints, or break downs, period. Extremely happy and proud of the boys for taking on this endeavor, couldn't have gone any better.

Way to go Joe and boys. Brava

We will be riding the the C&O canal at the end of July and we were wondering if anyone has ridden it lately who can report on the conditions. It's been unusually rainy, so we're a little concerned.

Thanks,

Bruce

Just got off the trail with two young boys (10,12) on the 18th. It was in good shape, some mud but could ride around or through it no problem.

Greetings everyone!

I have found your comments to be great starting points for my planning in a trip my husband and I are intending to take this August (GAP + C&O).

I think that my best option, since we would like to travel west-east, is to drive to Pittsburgh and after the trip, take Amtrak back to Pittsburgh with the bikes in boxes. Things that I am unsure of are:

1)Will they let us park in the Amtrak lot in advance of our train journey (about 10 days or so)?
2)Are we restricted to 2 bike boxes or can we use an additional for a 1 wheel bike trailer?
3)What time do we need to be at the station to be able to make our departure?
...(basically any addition advice you may have for using the amtrak service since we have never done that before.)

Aside from the logistics of the parking/transportation, I am hoping that I can get some advice from trail enthusiasts regarding personal favorite sight seeing stops. We intend to take at least 3 leisurely days with minimal (or no) cycling to see some main points on the trail. I am sure we will make Harpers Ferry one of the stops, but I am undecided about the others.

Also, short sightseeing breaks are good to know, as well. My husband has a habit, when taking motorcycle trips, of getting off the bike every hour or 60 miles, whichever comes first, so that he doesn't get too tender in the seat. Since this has been successful for him (he makes 600+ mile days on the motorcycle), he is thinking that we should adapt the concept to the bicycles, as well.

Basically, as far as the sightseeing goes, I am hoping to have a plan before we go (with flexibility) so that we aren't standing around the trail asking each other whether we should stop here, ...where do we have to go to get to..., ...if we skip such and such, is there anything else to see today, etc.

Thanks in advance for your input,
Angie :)

Hi Angie. Can't help with the train logistics. I can tell you Harpers Ferry is a nice place to spend a day. There is a nice little hike to the top of hill / rock cropping. This gives you a beautiful view of the town. Lots of neat little shops there. I really like Ohiopyle too. I think you could find plenty to do there. There are lots of other towns that have neat things to see and/or do.

Let me recommend "The Trail Book". Best $10.00 you'll spend. Just like this website, it has a lot of good info. It has a section for each "Trail-Town" with lots of info for each town.

Good luck with your ride!

Ohiopyle is worth checking out. If you've got time, you should get one of the outfitters to drive you up to Frank Lloyd Wright's Falling Water house located nearby. It would be a challenge to ride your bikes there on the highway. Harpers Ferry is a must see, but access from the trail is via a railroad bridge with a walk way. You have to climb a few flights of stairs to access it. You'd likely have to leave you bikes locked up on the trail and just carry your valuables with you. The trail also passes by the Antietam civil war battlefield. I just did the Pitt-DC ride a few weeks ago. I spent 3 days bicycle touring D.C. at the end of the trip. I had a friend give me a ride back to Pittsburgh so I didn't mess with the train. One option is to ship your bikes back home and take the train.

I appreciate the discussion as I am about to embark on this journey myself, leaving this Friday. I am looking at a one way car rental, which makes the most sense to me...any feedback?

I have started looking at rental cars, as well. It looks to be a good option for the trip over to Pittsburgh. I did see that most of the rental car companies have locations within a few blocks of the Pittsburgh trailhead.

However, when I check the return trip, it is quite a bit more costly. Because of that, I am going to see if someone from home (Harrisburg) can come pick us up.

I am trying to be conservative on the costs for this trip, since I have already cruised twice this year, and have a New Years trip to plan. Since we are not averse to the truly rustic (we really swing the pendulum in vacation interests), I am looking at relying on the hiker biker campsites for a large part of the trip. I am hoping to space them with regular private campgrounds or guest houses so that we can do laundry and get something more than a portable shower. I hope that we don't come to regret that decision.

Since I consider myself the world’s foremost authority on Amtrak and Bicycles (talk about a tiny universe!), I’ll try to tackle the logistics question. Since you say GAP+C&O, I presume you mean you’ll end up in Washington, DC. You will be able to ship your bike in the baggage car back to PGH in a box. Quoting Amtrak policy: "Bicycles/bicycle trailers may be checked in a bicycle container for $10, in lieu of a piece of baggage. Bicycle boxes are sold at most staffed locations for $15 per box. Customers may supply their own bicycle container.” None of the other stops (Connellsville, Cumberland, Martinsburg, or Harpers Ferry) have baggage service; so no full sized bikes.

I haven’t had any experience with trailers, but based on the policy, it looks like a trailer works just like a bike. So assuming you carry you panniers on board, each of you would be entitled to ship a bike and a trailer in lieu of a piece of checked baggage.

The Capitol Limited departs DC at about 4 PM and arrives about 11:45. I believe you have to check baggage 45 minutes before departure. Whether the clock starts when you tell them you want to check the bike and pay the fee or when you present the boxed bike sort of depends on how busy they are and what type day the baggage man has been having. But obviously you don’t want to cut it too close. Incidentally, Amtrak’s bike boxes are much bigger than the manufacturer’s boxes. Normally, all you have to do is rotate the handle bars, roll the bike in, and tape it up. Usually the baggage guy has a roll of tape, but again I wouldn’t count on it.

FWIW, I’m planning a PGH to CUM ride; but my wife and I don’t have to deal with the no baggage issue at Cumberland because folding bikes go a carry on luggage. But my sister has a full sized bike; and it appears that the best bet is to leave her car in Cumberland, rent a car from one of the two Hertz locations and drop it off in Pittsburgh.

There is word on the street that the

Continuing the previous post, there is word on the street that the new baggage cars to replace the 60 year old rolling rust buckets will have bike racks. Also, Amtrak has been sort of promising to have roll on, roll off bike service on the Capitol Limited. This is supposed to happen sometime in 2014.

I was shocked at the amount of clutter and filth. Rooms needed vacuuming, hair in showers, junk strewn allover the yard. Caught a glimpse of the kitchen, wow, what a mess. Was afraid to eat breakfast the next morning. Wound up with a bad case of the Turkish trots; no doubt from that breakfast. Do not patronize this establishment! Going to report this to the health department and better business bureau.

Hi William,
Which establishment were you referring to? Thanks.

This is what I would call a "dump & run" post (no pun intended).

What a wonderful and charming place to stay when you need a rest from the trail. My wife and I stayed here on our trip from Pittsburgh to Washington DC and back. Helen Yoder is so pleasant and helpful. Place to clean your bike and store them in a safe locked room in the basement with easy access. Just 3 blocks from the trail, all downhill (all uphill in the morning). Easy access to food sources. Very clean, great bathroom and very affordable. Just a great place to stay. 6-10-2013

I couldn't have said it better than Gary from Johnstown. It's like a B&B with out the breakfast

The map shows campgrounds at the towns. Is there places along the gap where u can just stop and camp away from others?

There are none along the trail per se, but I have seen bikers set up camp along the trail where they could. That is where there was room and a clearing. But there isn't fresh water or facilities.

Thank u sooooo much. M planning on going from Pitt to Cumberland and back in Sept. Did greenbrier trail about a mth ago (160 mil ) for a warm up. I really enjoy the alone time. Don't get me wrong I enjoy meeting people. Hoping to go from Pitt to DC and back next spring???? We'll c. Again thank u !!!! Sorry took me so long to reply. Been working double shifts.

Ok, I just tried to reply, so if this ends up being a double post, ...sorry.

Go to http://www.atatrail.org/tmi/maps.cfm to find a break down by map of camping available. There are some (although not as many as the C&O). I know that one is 28 miles out from Pittsburgh, then it goes to appx. 39 & 51 miles out. They are supposed to be on, or very near, the trail. The last one is the Outflow camping area below Ohiopyle state park. That one is back from the trail a bit, as I understand.

That is it for the "gratis" campsites. If the interest in that type of site is generated by cost, Rockwood shows a paid site right on the trail for 10pp if I recall correctly. I hear that the YMCA in Cumberland allows tents for 10, but I am not sure if it was per person, or per tent (as it was described to me).

(Unverified, as of yet, ...I am planning my own trip for August, and this is what I have determined.)

First let me say that you're only supposed to camp at the listed campgrounds. But, if you need (or want) to stealth camp there's plenty of nice places. Just don't expect there to be water at these stealth camping spots.

Cool. I carry plenty of water. I pack heavy. I would stop at a campground to shower....sure beats a cold river..lol. I may stay at the campgrounds so I don't get in trouble. Paying for them is not an issue. M by myself on these trips and the time on the bike and quiet time in camp clears my head. Us old folks need that.

My wife and I just got home from 90 miles of hiking on the GAP and we camped at Ohiopyle, Outflow Campground, and Husky Haven as well as in Meyersdale. We liked Husky Haven the best. The sites are large, the camp ground is clean and well kept, and there's plenty of space so you're not right on top of the next site, and there's firewood at each site. The down side is you go into town to register (it was a short walk)and there's no water at the sites so ask for them to bring you water to the site. Husky Haven gets a 10+ in this hikers review.

Thank u sir. I liked the part about not being on top of one another.

I 2nd the Husky Haven. My favorite by far and dont forget to eat at the Millhouse for breakfast/lunch. Oh yeah, bring earplugs because the trains run quite often and their horns are LOUD.

Question about the Meyersdale stop, ...where/what is the camping location? I may be missing the obvious, but I haven't been able to confirm anything. The one that is on the town link (on this site) just gives me a ring-no answer. That town is the one that is giving me the most trouble with planning.

The trains shouldn't b a prob. I live about 175' from railroad tracks, but thanks

"Question about the Meyersdale stop, ...where/what is the camping location"

Go down into town and go into Donges Drive-In. They'll do the registration, take your fee, and tell you where to go. PS: The food at Donges is pretty good too.

Link above doesn't work, but here's another link with info: http://www.co.westmoreland.pa.us/index.aspx?NID=773

It seems there is now a camping option in the town of Meyersdale. Check at Donges Drive-In Restaurant for details.

That's good to know. Thank u

Just finished 4 days on the C&O path with family – wife, 2 daughters, 10 & 7. 10-year old did over 60 miles of the 78 we covered. 7-year old did a few short rides. Used rental SUV as SAG vehicle (Ford Edge – worked well with 3 bike rack). Wife road 29r, older daughter on a Redline Conquest 24” cyclocross bike, me on my cyclocross. Highlights – Bavarian Inn, miles of pleasant riding with my 10-year old (very special time for us), Harpers Ferry (though parking is a rub), newly opened trail section, and overall condition of the trail. Low points – Candlelight Inn (WAY too pricy for what you get), the couple that rode up on us with no bell or warning (startled both of us, resulting in an over the handlebars crash for daughter - scrapes, nothing serious, finished the ride - c’mon folks, get a bell and use it), and Lockhouse 22 – very beautiful setting, but the trains mean NO SLEEP! – if you need a quiet night to rest, do not recommend it. For families – give this ride due respect – can be a tricky trail, despite being flat and without motor traffic. Can hardly wait to get back to finish the sections we didn’t ride on this trip! sparker@nuvasive.com

Correction - Lockhouse 28

Just to touch on one point you made regarding the people who came up on you with no warning. That is a big pet-peeve of mine. I point it out to the offending party every time as they go by. I find, generally speaking, that it is the what I like to call "day trippers" that are the biggest offenders. "Day trippers" being the people who are out for the occasional afternoon ride. I find that the people who are doing through rides or are avid riders understand trail etiquette and understand what can happen by startling someone.

I am glad to see that your daughter was O.K. I hope the people that came up on you stopped and apologized to you.

Wife and I rode a tandem pulling a 2 wheel trailer. The girl that rode up on us, with no bell, ended up in the C&O canal....Oops..I have very poor hearing and can not wear my hearing aids while riding, she really spooked us and she understood it was all her fault, no one hurt just wet.

You should consider getting a Trail-a-bike for the 7 year old. He can ride the same distance as you without having to do all of the pedaling.

Out of curiosity, how far is it from the Frostburg trail head to the Borden Tunnel?

Just a little over 2 miles

No longer serves breakfast. You have to go up the street to the Park-n-Dine for that.

Weavers serves breakfast on Saturday and Sunday. I had breakfast there this past weekend. It was fantastic! The baked goods are tasty too! Check their website for the latest info www.weaversrestaurantandbakery.com

With over 1000 mile and 90hrs of riding the GAP and C&O I have only had 1 sighting of bear. That doesn't mean they re not there, but they want nothing to do with people.I only wrote this as to not deter riders from doing the ride because of bears.

Bears will leave people alone, in general, if you follow standard bear precautions: which, if you travel in bear country, is each person's responsibility to know and follow accordingly. I've backpacked many of our nation's national parks, prime grizzly habitat, and have never had a sighting of black or grizz.

2 days ago a bear broke into the kitchen of the rangers home at our state park. the bear was shooed out the door he broke into without anyone being harmed.They are opportunistic. The door was easily broken into and there was available food. He only wanted the food,not people.When there was human interaction he took off.Just keep to the rules and all is usually good.

Don't feed the bears. You will be setting the next person up for a possible encounter. I saw Bears twice while riding the C&O Canal Trail. On both occasions it was when I was beyond the 15 Mile Campground. Yes, they did move on, but it's best to play it safe. They are wild animals not tame circus animals. No one can predict what they will do. Follow standard Bear Safety precautions and you will be okay.

We are contemplating cycling the length of the GAP/C&O and are curious as to the trail surface. My companions ride hybrids I ride a road bike. Can someone comment on the type/quality of the trail surface, would it be suitable for a road bike or should I be looking to get a hybrid? I am assuming the surface mostly packed/small gravel but would like to be sure. Thank you.

Deborah the GAP trail is beautiful in regards to trail surface. The C&O not so much. All of our flat tires have come on the C&O. GAP is packed crushed gravel but the C&O is pretty rough with rocks and even tree roots. It is also very muddy when it rains. Very muddy! Bottom line is I would not recommend a road bike on the C&O. Read previous posts on this site. It has been discussed a lot.

Hey there,

I rode the GAP last year fall and it rained the entire first day, poured actually. Day 2 dry. I rode my single speed mountain bike with a pair of slicks. I did not have a single traction issue. The GAP drains very well, very few puddles to navigate. Planning a 3 day GAP & C and O, but been derailed twice, once by weather and then by a bad back. Good luck and make it happen,,,,

I wholly agree with JJB, he speaks truth. But, I have seen the adventurous type ride a road bike on the C&O. If you do, size up your tire to the largest tire you can install.

We finished the GAP/C&O almost two weeks ago when all the rain was in the area. The C&O was a nightmare! You would hit a "puddle" and would sink into a pond on occasions. It was extremely muddy and rutted. Would definitely do the GAP again and possibly the C&O, but it would HAVE to be In the dry season to do the C&O.

Anyone looking for a GAP/TOWPATH specific bike should check out this company.I bought a salsa fargo,some parts were damaged and even though they were not liable due to the time frame they still replaced them, no cost. check them out.

Please don't feed the Bears. Follow proper Bear food handling procedures when camping in Bear Country.

The following incident occurred in Alaska. The individual fed the Black Bear meat.

A black bear mauled a man at a campground in Alaska, but the animal won't likely threaten other people, the state Department of Fish and Game said.

Spokesman Ken Marsh said the bear was "pretty much goaded" into the attack Saturday near Eklutna Lake Campground north of Anchorage because the man fed it meat from a church barbecue, the Anchorage Daily News ( http://bit.ly/11sQbZW ) reported.

The man could be charged with illegally feeding wildlife, according to Alaska State Troopers spokeswoman Beth Ipsen. He had been drinking and went for a bike ride, taking some of the food along, she said. The man came across the bear and threw it a piece of meat. He then offered the bear another piece.

"That's when it kind of went ballistic," Ipsen said.

Park rangers later found the bloodied man washing himself off at the campground, Marsh said.

Yes,simply follow the rules when in bear country and carry a can of bear spray.If Tim Treadwell had carried one, him and his girlfriend would more than likely be alive today.The bear spray also works on bad people.