C&O / GAP Forum

I'm planning a ride from Pitt to DC in June. The gaptrail.org website indicates the trail is nearly level with an average grade less than 1%. Looking at the graphic, the elevation seems to gradually increase to mile 24 at the Eastern Continental Divide. A question to those who have ridden it eastbound, how much do you feel the uphill grade? Does it feel flat? THANKS

There is a slight increase in grade as you near the continental divide but it's not very significant. You get payback with interest as you descend to Frostburg and you can almost coast from Frostburg to Cumberland.

JK - - I've done the ride a couple times. My opinion is that you won't necessarily "feel the uphill grade", but it will reduce your speed 10-15%. It's pretty flat from Pittsburgh to Connellsville. From there to the eastern continental divide is where you start to notice the incline. So, if you've been going 15-18 till then, expect to ride at 12-15. Once you get to the divide its 20-25mph down into Cumberland. Enjoy the ride. You won't regret the journey.

Hi everyone,
Here is a quick story of my recent GAP and C&O Canal experience. I went from Pittsburgh to D.C. between Dec 22 and Dec 26 (2016). I did it on my own, on a race bike (equipped with 700x35c tires), with two bike bags and a backpack. The objective was to be completely autonomous, so I was carrying my food and everything needed to camp. In particular, I had a down sleeping bag + 2 fleece blankets to be able to sleep comfortably in cold temperatures. I also had a handmade jet stove (“P3RS”), but I did not really use it.

I’m not quite sure how I feel about the experience: it was physically hard and not very interesting in this season (it’s just 330 miles of desolated landscape). Also, it was very complicated to find water. Since it’s winter, all the pumps are down, so I spent five days drinking most of the time river water. I should also mention that the trail follows train rails and that the noise from the train is loud: if you want to sleep tight, take some earplugs with you!

- Day one (Dec 22 – 72 Miles) : my train arrived at a stupid time (Amtrak no. 29, arriving at midnight in Pittsburgh), so I started riding the GAP by night. I encountered big pools of ice during the first hour (between Pittsburgh and Homestead) and ended up with frozen feets. The path is very easy to find, there is no way to get lost, even at night. I took a 2 hours nap in Dravo’s Landing campground. This place is well equipped, with a functioning water pump, shelters and fireplaces. I then resumed biking and stopped in Ohiopyle campground in the hope to find water. I could not find any working pump, so I drank water from a nearby creek. I was exhausted and ended up sleeping there. The campground (which is not a free one) was closed, so the ranger let me sleep there for free (thanks !).
- Day two (Dec 23 – 78 Miles): I realized a bit late that there is a visitor center in Ohiopyle city (one mile after the bridge), where you can have tap water and a proper bathroom. The path was pretty easy to ride until Confluence. Between Confluence and Rockwood (and especially the miles 57-58-59), there were a lot of fallen trees blocking the path. I went to Deal (it went uphill most of the day) and had to leave the trail here to go Cumberland (Big Savage Tunnel is closed). The road to Cumberland is fairly easy: one needs to take Road 160 over 25 miles, and that’s it. The road goes through Barrelsville, Corriganville and finally Cumberland (and it goes downhill, so it’s a pretty easy end of the day). In Cumberland it’s fairly simple to find the trail again (just try to follow the train rails, and the trail must be nearby). I stopped at the Crabby Pig (a restaurant right on the trail). The food was good, but I guess after two days eating garbage, any food would feel awesome. The hot chocolate was really appreciated, though! I slept in Ewitt’s Creek, which is not far from Cumberland.
- Day 3 (Dec 24 – 61 Miles): The path conditions were very easy until the Paw Paw tunnel. One needs to be careful while crossing the tunnel (no light, potentially slippery especially if frozen), but crossing was not particularly difficult. I stopped in Hancock to buy some snacks (at the gas station) and fill my water bottle. The city is right on the path. I intended to sleep in Jordan Junction but encountered terrible mud around mile 122 which forced me to go back and sleep in Little Pool.
- Day 4 (Dec 25 – 44 Miles): After spending two hours cleaning my bike, I went back to mile 122 and switched to the Western Maryland Trail for a few miles (there is a small bridge that connects the two trails around mile 120). That trail is tarred, so it is super easy to ride on. After a few miles, I went back to the C&O Canal. I slept in Killiansburg Cave.
- Day 5 (Dec 26 – 75 Miles): I wanted to find some snacks, but I had to climb a hill to go to Sheperdstown or cross a bridge to go to Harper’s Ferry, so I waited until Brunswick. There I stopped at the Potomac

Wow!! Congrats. Impressive.
Your Day 5 discussion was cut off. Can you repost that part to the end.

Yep, here is the end.

... at the Potomac St. Grill. The bartender is a nice dude, he gave me a free hot chocolate (I must have looked really frozen!). Their food is nice as well. The path to D.C. was then pretty straightforward; I encountered only one big tree trunk on the way (a couple of miles away from Brunswick). Since night was coming and I did not want to spend too much time on the Canal by night, I exited at Seven Locks, crossed Clara Barton Parkway and found myself on MacArthur Blvd (in Glen Echo). The road is then very simple, one only needs to follow this road, which eventually becomes M St in Georgetown. I finally stopped in Foggy Bottom and took the metro home.

I hope my story will give some useful information for those who were thinking about doing it in winter. My guess is that riding the C&O and GAP in spring, and with some friends would probably be a better idea ;)

Please note: English is not my first language, I’m French. All apologies for the language mistakes…

Wow, kudos to you for completing the challenge and camping in the cold! I rode half of the trail solo from Cumberland to Connellsville in November and it was rather monotonous visually! I agree that going with friends or in the spring when scenery is more pleasant would be ideal. Although it was nice to have the trail to myself in the off season!

I have done entire C and O a few times with friends. My wife wanted to try it for the first time together. We decided we would not have time to do all 184.5 miles so we did almost 80 miles (Williamsport to Whites Ferry)in three days. It was a great trip. We wanted to do it without help from others so the logistics took some careful planning. Here is the itinerary in case you want to try it:
Day 1 - Drive to W.port and check into Red Roof. Leave bikes/gear in hotel room. Drive to enterprise car rental in Hagerstown (its very close to W. port). We both drive to Whites Ferry and leave our car there. Both of us now in rental go to Brunswick family campground and drop off camping gear, clean clothes and food inside a large plastic tub. I contacted the person who runs the campground and she said no problem leaving stuff until we get there two nights later. Drive rental car back to W.port hotel.
Day 2 - In the morning drive rental to enterprise and its their policy to give free rides home so they drive us back to hotel. Pack up bikes and hit the towpath. Ride to Shepherdstown and spend the night at Quality Inn.
Day 3 - Leave S.town and Ride to Brunswick family campground (camping stuff is there waiting for us). It was nice not having to carry tent, sleeping bags, etc. on bike).
Day 4. Leave campground for Whites Ferry where car is parked. Get in car and drive to Brunswick to pick up camping gear. Head back home.

We are very slow riders and stop to look around every lock, lockhouse, cave, etc. Also spent time in downtown W.port and S.town. Looked around Harper's Ferry and Ferry Hill Plantation for a while. We fished and swam in Potomac a few spots.
Great three days on the towpath.

Correction - Meant to title this discussion Williamsport to White's Ferry (not Cumberland).

I would like to document our upcoming trip by making a video. Would appreciate any input on what type of cameras people have used. Looking at GoPro but have heard they are not user friendly for editing video. Suggestions?

On my video of Homestead to Pittsburgh which is on this page I used a Contour Camera. Had it hooked up the handlebars. My buddy uses a GoPro and has no trouble editing. I guess it's all up to which editing program you decide to use.

Seems like GoPro and personal iPhones are whats used most.The editing issues will depend on what you will be using on your computer to edit the footage.It can get as simple or complicated as you want to make it.Lots of programs to choose from.

I use a GoPro Hero4 Camera and attach it to my handlebars. You can also attach it to your chest, wearing it like a Body Cam. Be sure to have a few batteries because when shooting at HD there is alot of battery drain. I record at 720 which saves on battery life. As far as accessories buy the aftermarket ones like Smatree. You can find them on Amazon. Their a lot cheaper. Also go with the GOPRO Hero 4 and make sure the batteries and accessories you buy match, that is they are Hero4 compatiable! The HERO4 has a LCD Viewer, the cheaper GOPros do not have a viewer. You need a Viewer.

I recently purchased the GoPro Hero 5. The feature I like most about this camera (besides that the fact that it can film in 4K resolution) is that it can be controlled by your voice. You simply tell it when to start recording or stop recording, no need to stop and fumble with the small buttons. It also has image stabilization which will help to dampen the vibration of the trail.

Thanks for all the input. My son is sending me his GoPro 4 to try. The 5 sounds really nice with the voice command feature. Our trip is not until Sept. so I have plenty of time.

group of novice riders plan to go pgh to dc.need help planning trip with everything from weather lodgeing food and packing. THANKS

Driest month would probably be one of the summer months, probably July but I suggest referencing the Farmer's Almanac. First time I would probably do the hotel route unless you have done a lot of camping before. Plus you will probably sleep better and the trip overall will be better. As far as planning a lot will depend on the distance you want to travel, number of days to do it and the miles per day you intend to cover.

Remember that July is hot though. I rode from DC to Pittsburgh in July and it was warm. I'd also ask questions at the Great Allegheny Passage unofficial Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gapcando/

Its a fairly easy trip to plan. I would consider watching some youtube videos as that will clue you into a lot of what you may want to do. Yes, July or August. You want dry on the C&O

I've had best luck with weather (no rain)during August and September. Did a ride once over Memorial Day weekend and nearly froze to death. It would probably be a good idea to the get the guide book to assist in the planning, especially if you plan on staying in hotels and B&Bs. The guidebook has ads from the hotels/B&Bs and many of the restaurants along the trail. I suspect you'd need to make reservations for the lodging and plan accordingly (I personally prefer to camp). As far as food goes, I generally don't carry a lot because there are diners and restaurants in most of the towns along the way; however, dining options are fewer and far-between on the C&O section. Pack light and bring rain gear. I've biked in temperatures in the 90s and it didn't bother me (you've always got a breeze blowing on you depending on how fast you're riding).

If you go in warm weather bring bug spray, watch for poison ivy it's all over, recommend fenders.

I've done 5 thru rides on the Passage and 2 on the C&O. This past Oct my wife and I plus 3 beginner riders did an 8 day trip. If you'd like to contact me feel free to do so. 757 619-5522. I've done a mix of indoor/outdoor stays and can suggest various options. I don't mind offering sme advise. We were all rookies at 1 time.

Your site says Confluence, MD. Please change to Confluence, PA

Thank you for pointing that out - I have corrected it.

Hello all!

Fantastic site!

My wife and I are planning a family trip from Pittsburgh to D.C. In May or June. The kicker is we are planning on taking the kids. We have a 3 yo and 4 yo (she will be 5 when we go)

We currently use rear bike seats attached to rear racks or a Burley, I read Burleys are not good on the passage so we would use the seats which would cripple the amount of packs we could take. So we are thinking of getting the BOB yak or Ibex cargo trailer.

The other option is to get the weehoo child trailer. This would allow us to pack on our racks and on the trailer.

Our kids are pretty tiny, about 29 lbs each.

Any thoughts or ideas?

The C&O can get a little bumpy in places. Also, there are several area along the trail where it's close to the edge of the river. So something you have high confidence that will stay connected. You may want to also consider having your children wear PFDs when traveling near the water's edge.

Awesome advice.

I just purchased the Weehoo iGo Venture. Weehoo was offering a 30% discount end of year sale and I could not pass it up.

We ride along the Ohio and Erie canal towpath often so we are used to riding around water, but you can never be safe enough! Great idea and warning.

You might enjoy the Journal of a woman that road the trip on a recumbent trike. https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=tS&page_id=460530&v=9n I always enjoy seeing families on the trail. I did a cross Illinois ride with a large group of people and many were families with tagalongs, tandems with special coaster peddles etc. Go for it enjoy.

I just finished Ana's story and makes me want to leave right now! Thank you for the suggestion.

You ARE QUIT welcome I am doing a lot of armchair traveling in preparation for September on the C&O Great Allegheny. Happy trails.

What kind of weather can we expect for the first week of Oct.? We plan to leave by 8 each morning so what can we expect temp.wise. Looking at some of the videos on YouTube Oct. can be pretty chilly.

Should be a good time. I've done Pitts. to DC in mid to late Oct. Can get cold in higher elevations north of Cumberland. Leafs won't have changed by then, but bugs should not be a problem. Biggest problem is rain, it can get muddy. Be prepared especially if you are planning to camp.

Hello all- I am new to the forums here and to the area. I am considering riding the C an O/GAP from DC to Pittsburgh once the school semester ends. Do you think this is possible,barring heavy snow before I leave, or during? I realize it will be a more difficult trip this time of year, and that there is a major detour at Big Savage. How well is the trail maintained during the winter months after snowfall. Any other general information or advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

Neil

The Big Savage Tunnel wont reopen until April 2017. If you've found a detour please feel free to share it with the forums! :-)
While the GAP could be in better condition than the C&O, the C&O would be more muddy and wet because it doesn't drain or dry out as well (tree canopy). No one maintains it or plows any of it. I can't imagine trying for to do it all 335 miles. Best wishes and good luck on your trip!

Here is a URL for a detour around Big Savage tunnel.
http://linkup.shaw-weil.com/detoursavage.htm
Keep in mind that there are a number of steep climbs along the road ways and the shoulder is not in great condition in places.

Detour is appx. 15 miles and there is some bit of climbing. Runs from Deal parking area to Frostburg. It's a major "go around". The Passage would be fine to ride in winter apart from cold, and possible rain/snow. Bare in mind that a lot of businesses are seasonal. The C&O might be tougher if there has been weather beforehand. Main thing is layers and probably a bail out option.

I think it would be an awesome adventure. As noted - many services will be closed so I would plan to be VERY self-sufficient or have some form of support. In summertime, I normally ride 60-65 mile days on the C&O and slightly longer (65-80 mile) days on the GAP. I would plan to shorten those days CONSIDERABLY if I was to do it in winter. I'd probably think about days HALF that length or shorter depending on weather.
Again as noted - I would be especially interested in the weather as it relates to the C&O....honestly it might best be ridden on a fatbike in winter.

I do hotel/motel so I travel light. I'd have to rethink my stops each night and see where the best options would be for the shorter distances.

All that said - it sounds like an AWESOME adventure to me. Best wishes. Post if you go for you. I'd love to hear your stories.

There are lots of motel/B&B options along the Passage. Many stay open due to winter skiing in Pa. If you were planning to camp (which it sounds like you aren't) there are several nice spots including the free Adirondack shelters just west of Connelsville along the trail. I've always wanted to stay there but always too early in the day. I own a Fat Bike and have done several multiday back country rides so that would be a great option. Your right...it would be an awesome adventure. I might have to start planning a ride along the route for next Dec.

Hey,
I just finished the C&O and GAP (between Dec 22 and Dec 26). I did it in full autonomy (camping every night, carrying my own food). It was done with a race bike, but equipped with 35mm tires.

Some remarks:
- Water is hard to find. The pumps are down, and you obviously don't want to carry 5 days of drinking water. So this requiers a lot of planning (or accepting to drink river water, which I ended up doing). You can find water in the cities, but they are not always on your path. I would suggest to carry Micropure with you, just in case.
- Some parts of the trail can become a nightmare in case of rain/snow/ice. I would recommend checking very carefully the weather conditions before going. I lost half a day because of mud blocking my bike...
- They are a lot of tree trunks blocking the road, especially on miles 57-58-59 of the GAP. If you can, pack light, because you will have to lift your bike many times.
- Most private camping sites are closed. So, especially on the GAP, you will have at least one long stretch (or a night in a B&B) if you don't want to sleep illegally on a private camping site.
- Yes, Big Savage Tunnel is closed, but if you accept to ride 25 miles on a big road (Road 160), you can fill the gap very easily. Just ride from Cumberland to Deal on a normal road.
- I ended up doing around 60-70 miles a day, which made me ride very fast (because days are short) and hurt myself (my knee is not in great shape, I'm afraid). I would suggest to do it in 6 or 7 days.

Best of luck !
Eric.

---
Please note: English is not my first language (I'm French): sorry for the language mistakes !

If anyone has traveled the Montour Trail (a 48 mile suburban rail-trail in southwest Pittsburgh), you will travel through the 660 foot National tunnel around Mile 25.
When travelling through, riders will get a few drops of water on them as the ground water seeps through the cracks in the spine of the tunnel and it continues 365 days a year. In winter, this water is a big issue because when freezing temperatures enter the tunnel, the water freezes and forms columns of ice that seem to get bigger and bigger as the winter progresses. There is no easy way to pass through unless you had ice crampons!
This was a major safety risk to the Montour Trail Council. They would put up orange signs warning people to not enter but inevitably some would try to pass through and climb over the ice. This same ice would not melt until April or May leaving this part of the trail unusable 4-5 months out of the year.
As an experiment, they completely boarded up the two tunnel entrances with plywood last year (winter 2015/16), closing the tunnel for almost 4 months. The thought was that by closing off the air flow, the tunnel should stay warm enough inside so ice cannot form. The experiment was a success as temperatures stayed a consistent 48 degrees all winter and no ice built up. This allowed them to open the tunnel much earlier than normal.
This winter (2016/17) they are trying a slightly different experiment. The same wood walls are going up but with a cut-out you can walk through (looks like an 8’x10’ cutout). The cut-out openings are covered with two sets of see-through plastic curtain strips similar to entrances to cold rooms. There is no door just these plastic heavy plastic strips that you push aside and pass through. Push through the first set of strips, then pass through a second set of strips a few feet later.
This does two things: Allows safe passage through the tunnel year round while keeping the temps above freezing, not allowing ice to form. They are calling it an “air lock”.
I could totally see this working for the Big Savage Tunnel. No more closure date announcements and no more wondering where the detour is. Surely this could work, couldn’t it?

Very interesting idea. Certainly seems worth considering/trying.

If this is possible/feasible I would definitely be up for a winter trip on my Fat Bike. I know the weather stayed fairly mild till later in the year so this could be a good idea.

Has anyone travelled up to the closed tunnel doors in winter? Is the reason for it's closure more about high elevation snow accumulation approaching the two entrances and not so much about ice build up inside the tunnel like the Montour Trail? I don't recall too much water seepage in Big Savage so I can't say for sure. Or maybe it is. Is it really dangerous to travel up there in winter (as in you'd need snow shoes to make it through)? Has anyone ever heard exactly WHY they close it for winter?

From the GAP web page on the Big Savage Tunnel closure: "The tunnel is closed between roughly December 15 and April 10 each winter to protect it from icing damage."

I suspect there is ground water leakage inside the tunnel and when the cold
temps come through, the ice begins to build up. No reason the same idea for the Montour Trail National Tunnel couldn't be applied here. My hope is that the people who run the GAP organization could stop at this tunnel on the Montour Trail in winter to see how this works with their own eyes and see if it's feasible at Big Savage.

bears and other animals would den up in the tunnel

Interesting. Hadn't thought of animals getting in there. Certainly bears are not a major issue in suburban Pittsburgh for them to consider. Has there ever been a bear sighting in the tunnel when it's open the rest of the year?

Risk (of Tunnel Damage) vs Gain (of more cold weather bikers). Given the millions spent to renovate the tunnel, it would take a very strong and researched argument to change the closing dates or closing process.

There are a couple of other factors to consider as well: 1) Big Savage is a Mountain, and there is a considerable amount of snow that accumulates on the mountain; 2) I don't know what the surface of the Montour Trail is like, but the GAP surface is crushed limestone, and in the early Spring, the local riders ask for people to stay off the GAP until the surface is sufficiently thawed and dry to avoid tracks.

I will never forget the first time I met Harry Beal,an ex-Navey Seal and trail ambassador at the west side of the tunnel, he said "see any bear" I replied "no" he said "said they see you."