C&O / GAP Forum

Hello all- I am new to the forums here and to the area. I am considering riding the C an O/GAP from DC to Pittsburgh once the school semester ends. Do you think this is possible,barring heavy snow before I leave, or during? I realize it will be a more difficult trip this time of year, and that there is a major detour at Big Savage. How well is the trail maintained during the winter months after snowfall. Any other general information or advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

Neil

The Big Savage Tunnel wont reopen until April 2017. If you've found a detour please feel free to share it with the forums! :-)
While the GAP could be in better condition than the C&O, the C&O would be more muddy and wet because it doesn't drain or dry out as well (tree canopy). No one maintains it or plows any of it. I can't imagine trying for to do it all 335 miles. Best wishes and good luck on your trip!

Here is a URL for a detour around Big Savage tunnel.
http://linkup.shaw-weil.com/detoursavage.htm
Keep in mind that there are a number of steep climbs along the road ways and the shoulder is not in great condition in places.

Detour is appx. 15 miles and there is some bit of climbing. Runs from Deal parking area to Frostburg. It's a major "go around". The Passage would be fine to ride in winter apart from cold, and possible rain/snow. Bare in mind that a lot of businesses are seasonal. The C&O might be tougher if there has been weather beforehand. Main thing is layers and probably a bail out option.

I think it would be an awesome adventure. As noted - many services will be closed so I would plan to be VERY self-sufficient or have some form of support. In summertime, I normally ride 60-65 mile days on the C&O and slightly longer (65-80 mile) days on the GAP. I would plan to shorten those days CONSIDERABLY if I was to do it in winter. I'd probably think about days HALF that length or shorter depending on weather.
Again as noted - I would be especially interested in the weather as it relates to the C&O....honestly it might best be ridden on a fatbike in winter.

I do hotel/motel so I travel light. I'd have to rethink my stops each night and see where the best options would be for the shorter distances.

All that said - it sounds like an AWESOME adventure to me. Best wishes. Post if you go for you. I'd love to hear your stories.

There are lots of motel/B&B options along the Passage. Many stay open due to winter skiing in Pa. If you were planning to camp (which it sounds like you aren't) there are several nice spots including the free Adirondack shelters just west of Connelsville along the trail. I've always wanted to stay there but always too early in the day. I own a Fat Bike and have done several multiday back country rides so that would be a great option. Your right...it would be an awesome adventure. I might have to start planning a ride along the route for next Dec.

Hey,
I just finished the C&O and GAP (between Dec 22 and Dec 26). I did it in full autonomy (camping every night, carrying my own food). It was done with a race bike, but equipped with 35mm tires.

Some remarks:
- Water is hard to find. The pumps are down, and you obviously don't want to carry 5 days of drinking water. So this requiers a lot of planning (or accepting to drink river water, which I ended up doing). You can find water in the cities, but they are not always on your path. I would suggest to carry Micropure with you, just in case.
- Some parts of the trail can become a nightmare in case of rain/snow/ice. I would recommend checking very carefully the weather conditions before going. I lost half a day because of mud blocking my bike...
- They are a lot of tree trunks blocking the road, especially on miles 57-58-59 of the GAP. If you can, pack light, because you will have to lift your bike many times.
- Most private camping sites are closed. So, especially on the GAP, you will have at least one long stretch (or a night in a B&B) if you don't want to sleep illegally on a private camping site.
- Yes, Big Savage Tunnel is closed, but if you accept to ride 25 miles on a big road (Road 160), you can fill the gap very easily. Just ride from Cumberland to Deal on a normal road.
- I ended up doing around 60-70 miles a day, which made me ride very fast (because days are short) and hurt myself (my knee is not in great shape, I'm afraid). I would suggest to do it in 6 or 7 days.

Best of luck !
Eric.

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Please note: English is not my first language (I'm French): sorry for the language mistakes !

If anyone has traveled the Montour Trail (a 48 mile suburban rail-trail in southwest Pittsburgh), you will travel through the 660 foot National tunnel around Mile 25.
When travelling through, riders will get a few drops of water on them as the ground water seeps through the cracks in the spine of the tunnel and it continues 365 days a year. In winter, this water is a big issue because when freezing temperatures enter the tunnel, the water freezes and forms columns of ice that seem to get bigger and bigger as the winter progresses. There is no easy way to pass through unless you had ice crampons!
This was a major safety risk to the Montour Trail Council. They would put up orange signs warning people to not enter but inevitably some would try to pass through and climb over the ice. This same ice would not melt until April or May leaving this part of the trail unusable 4-5 months out of the year.
As an experiment, they completely boarded up the two tunnel entrances with plywood last year (winter 2015/16), closing the tunnel for almost 4 months. The thought was that by closing off the air flow, the tunnel should stay warm enough inside so ice cannot form. The experiment was a success as temperatures stayed a consistent 48 degrees all winter and no ice built up. This allowed them to open the tunnel much earlier than normal.
This winter (2016/17) they are trying a slightly different experiment. The same wood walls are going up but with a cut-out you can walk through (looks like an 8’x10’ cutout). The cut-out openings are covered with two sets of see-through plastic curtain strips similar to entrances to cold rooms. There is no door just these plastic heavy plastic strips that you push aside and pass through. Push through the first set of strips, then pass through a second set of strips a few feet later.
This does two things: Allows safe passage through the tunnel year round while keeping the temps above freezing, not allowing ice to form. They are calling it an “air lock”.
I could totally see this working for the Big Savage Tunnel. No more closure date announcements and no more wondering where the detour is. Surely this could work, couldn’t it?

Very interesting idea. Certainly seems worth considering/trying.

If this is possible/feasible I would definitely be up for a winter trip on my Fat Bike. I know the weather stayed fairly mild till later in the year so this could be a good idea.

Has anyone travelled up to the closed tunnel doors in winter? Is the reason for it's closure more about high elevation snow accumulation approaching the two entrances and not so much about ice build up inside the tunnel like the Montour Trail? I don't recall too much water seepage in Big Savage so I can't say for sure. Or maybe it is. Is it really dangerous to travel up there in winter (as in you'd need snow shoes to make it through)? Has anyone ever heard exactly WHY they close it for winter?

From the GAP web page on the Big Savage Tunnel closure: "The tunnel is closed between roughly December 15 and April 10 each winter to protect it from icing damage."

I suspect there is ground water leakage inside the tunnel and when the cold
temps come through, the ice begins to build up. No reason the same idea for the Montour Trail National Tunnel couldn't be applied here. My hope is that the people who run the GAP organization could stop at this tunnel on the Montour Trail in winter to see how this works with their own eyes and see if it's feasible at Big Savage.

bears and other animals would den up in the tunnel

Interesting. Hadn't thought of animals getting in there. Certainly bears are not a major issue in suburban Pittsburgh for them to consider. Has there ever been a bear sighting in the tunnel when it's open the rest of the year?

Risk (of Tunnel Damage) vs Gain (of more cold weather bikers). Given the millions spent to renovate the tunnel, it would take a very strong and researched argument to change the closing dates or closing process.

There are a couple of other factors to consider as well: 1) Big Savage is a Mountain, and there is a considerable amount of snow that accumulates on the mountain; 2) I don't know what the surface of the Montour Trail is like, but the GAP surface is crushed limestone, and in the early Spring, the local riders ask for people to stay off the GAP until the surface is sufficiently thawed and dry to avoid tracks.

I will never forget the first time I met Harry Beal,an ex-Navey Seal and trail ambassador at the west side of the tunnel, he said "see any bear" I replied "no" he said "said they see you."

Does anyone have details about the CSX trail from Paw Paw to Hancock along the West Virginia side of the river?

It's an asphalt paved trail that runs parallel to the C&O trail. There's a website for the CSX (aka Western Maryland Rail Trail), but it hasn't been updated in a few years. I believe they've extended the trail from its original 21-mile length. There's no camping areas along it. It's mostly a day-trail.

Coming from Cumberland, the exact mile marker is C&O 136.3. That takes you to the western end of the WMRT (Mile 22.5). As you head east, pass through Hancock, and head towards WMRT Mile 0, the last chance to get back onto the C&O is at WMRT Mile 0.75 (about 3/4 of a mile from Mile 0 and the eastern terminus of the WMRT). Basically once you pass WMRT Mile 1, keep an eye out for your turn off. When reentering the C&O, you be at C&O Mile 114.5.

The WMRT trail is on the Maryland side of the Potomac.

I believe that Charlie is asking about a CSX trail that would follow along the CSX tracks on the West Virginia side of the river between Hancock and Paw Paw.

Just over the 522 bridge at Hancock near the Hancock Airport is a listing for a CSX trail.
This continues along the CSX tracks to Doe Gully.

Then possibly use Low Line road to Paw Paw if you cant continue along CSX right of way.

Looking at Google Maps, after crossing route 51 in Paw Paw Low Line Road becomes Waterpump Road to Nose Hollow. At Nose Hollow it might be possible to ride along CSX right of way until Greenspring, where you can cross the Potomac on the Old Town Toll Bridge (no charge for bicycles).

Are there any reports of anyone taking that route?

You're correct Willy. That is the trail I am interested in.

The final day to bike through the Big Savage tunnel will be Dec 1st as the local volunteers are planning to close for the season the Big savage tunnel 3300 ft long) on December 2nd. The tunnel begins near mm 21.5 from Cumberland. check Official GAP Facebook page for more details when they are available. www.facebook.com/GAPtrail

UPDATE: THE BIG SAVAGE TUNNEL WILL BE CLOSED ON DECEMBER 9, 2016. IT WILL REOPEN THE FIRST WEEK IN APRIL 2017.

Just wondering, is the thought of extending the Western Maryland Rail Trail to Paw Paw still dead in the water?

It appears to be dead and likely will be for a long long time. The big reason is bats colonies that are nesting in three tunnels that go from Pearre to Paw Paw. They will extend the WMRT 4.5 miles to Little Orleans only. Even that stops short at the Indigo Tunnel and detours to the dirt and grass C&O Canal to get to Little Orleans. News articles said it was to begin this past July but I didn't ride it this year so I can't be certain. Check out this blog post for more details (second story on the page): http://www.thewashcycle.com/western-maryland-rail-trail-wmrt/

My apologies - for the past few days there was a bug which prevented adding new posts to the forum. This issue is now fixed.

Happy trails!

Just finished riding the C&O Canal yesterday. I have a blog site with video recaps of each day.
candocanalbiker . blogspot . com
A few thoughts:
- If possible, be flexible with your dates and try to ride when the weather is good. I postponed a week to avoid rain and had 2 beautiful days of riding. Unfortunately, my last day was rainy, muddy and therefore miserable at times. But since it was my final day, it was still enjoyable.
- Hancock and Harper's Ferry are great stopping points.
- The hotels where I stayed were all biker friendly:
Cumberland-Fairfield Inn, Hancock-Super8, Harper's-Econolodge.
- When crossing to Harper's, you'll need to carry your bike up a spiral staircase. So try to have some easily detachable paniers. I made two trips, one with my stuff and another with my bike.
- Good places to stop for lunch: Bills Place in Little Orleans (mile 141) and Whites Ferry Grill (mile 35). Both are right on the trail.
- The WMRT from mile 136 to mile 114 is well worth it. A beautiful paved trail that goes through Hancock.
- Check your rack bolts, screws, and your gears, chain, and brakes each night. Clean and oil your chain each day. Lots of vibration and mud.
- Take lots of small easily accessible high carb snacks and eat every 30 minutes. This will make a huge difference.
- Bring a bright light for the PawPaw Tunnel.
- Enjoy the history. Lots of cool locks, houses, aqueducts, and scenery. Take photos and videos.
- The people you'll meet on the C&O are really nice folks!

I rode it right behind you, starting out of Cumberland the evening of Friday the 7th and finishing in Georgetown the morning of Monday the 10th.

Rained on me all night Friday and most of Saturday - trail was wet and muddy. That day gave me by far the seventy longest miles I've ridden. I knew a cold front was on the way to dry things out, though, so I kept going and had a nice little fire and strung up a clothesline at camp Saturday night and had a fantastic time. The C&O campsites are typically beautiful and peaceful, and terrific for even a night's getaway.

The campsite at Lock 68 is nothing short of gorgeous, and feels quite remote. I didn't see anybody else on the train Friday night, until midmorning Saturday. Aside from the rare train, the only sounds at Lock 68 were crickets, katydids, frogs, the occasional splash in the canal, and the steady rain.

Did the same trip as you in late July. Even stayed in the same hotels! Would use them all again. Especially pleased with the Fairfield in Cumberland. Came in off the trail covered with mud and was thrilled to find their bike wash station. Incredibly helpful and bike friendly...and super close to a restaurant that I really enjoyed....the Crabby Pig.

Awesome video blog!!!!

Thank you for sharing tjat!

Thank you for sharing that!

Is there a trail to get to the Ohiopyle SP Campground from the GAP? Google map shows going on roads to get there but the satellite map view shows that the campground is very close to the trail. I was wondering if there is a shortcut :) ?
Thanks!

I found the answer to my own question from the State Park Recreational Guide, http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/cs/groups/public/documents/document/dcnr_003523.pdf

"CAMPGROUND CONNECTOR:
0.5 mile, unblazed, more difficult
hiking This emergency access road
begins off the Great Allegheny Passage
paralleling Beech Trail and then uphill to
connect with the back of Fir Road in the
campground. Bicyclists traveling between
the campground and the Great Allegheny
Passage should walk their bicycles up and
down this hill due to the steep grade."

You might check this out a little further. I have used this trail before and would never go up it again. You would spend less energy riding to the next campsite. When you get to the top there is still more uphill to get to entrance of park to register. For reference I am 67 years old so maybe for a younger person more doable. There are many reviews of this trail on this website be sure and read them before going.

I just finished a ride from DC to Pittsburgh earlier this week. The trip took about 4 and a half days. I have posted details about the first couple of days of the trip in my blog. Please check it out.

http://mundanemuses.blogspot.com/2016/10/washington-dc-to-pittsburg-bike-trip-on_27.html

Just curious what type of lock did you carry for bike security when you weren't around it. I am planning on going into alot of towns when I do my trip.

I carry a medium weight cable with a combo lock. It's lighter than a U-lock and you don't need to keep track of a key. We never felt we were in a bad area on our bike trip, but if we were, I'd be more concerned about the bags/contents walking away.

My wife and I are headed down this weekend for a 2 day Cumberland to Pitt trip. I currently have both bikes setup with full fenders - they were a huge asset during a Pitt to DC trip I did back in May, which involved more rain and lots of mud on C&O. If I remember the GAP correctly, it all drains very well. Weather right now looks like a bit of rain Thursday, maybe Friday morning, but Sat/Sun will be dry. Is there any need for the fenders? I only ask because leaves occasionally get pulled up and stuck between the fender and tire, making for an annoying noise. If they are needed functionally, I'll put up with picking a leaf out every now and then. If not, I'd rather remove them before the trip. Thoughts?

I don't think I've ever wanted to take off fenders before. Usually I've been wishing I had them. That said, I'd probably leave them on and pick a leaf out every now and then, While the GAP does seem to drain very well, tires throw sand and silt onto a bottom bracket, chain or legs if there aren't any fenders.
Also, forecasts (especially 5-day outlooks) are generally worth what you paid for them.

"Also, forecasts (especially 5-day outlooks) are generally worth what you paid for them."

Yep - that's a good point.

No need for fenders. The trail from Cumberland to Pgh is in pretty good shape for the most part. Not as much mud as from DC to Cumberland. You will have the usual "spray" of dust/light dirt from the crushed limestone.

keep your fenders on, it will keep you and your bike drivetrain clean and working properly (;

Fenders are completely optional. trail is dry so I'd prefer without any extra equipt or items to get in the way...
check www.GAPtrail.org for interactive map. Big Savage tunnel closes Dec 2nd this year. FYI

Small town, hometown atmosphere. Terrific pizza! Friendly staff. Great beer selection. A pleasant experience. Will return!

What recommendations would you have for where to stay in Confluence? I am more a motel/hotel person than a B&B but am open to best options...close to the trail.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Stayed at the Parker House in July, was very good, clean, locked storage shed for bikes, check their web page. Ate at Rivers Edge for dinner, Sisters Cafe for breakfast the next morning. All great choices.

In August we stayed at the Parker House and loved it. It is a B, not a B&B (no breakfast) so very reasonably priced, grocery store a short walk away, full kitchen, TV room, shed to store bikes, close to the trail, etc.

Very helpful! Thank you.

How hard is riding the incline from Connellsville to Frostburg in one day? Looking at a 5-day ride from Pitt to DC next year including these two GAP overnights. THANKS!

The elevation change from Connellsville to Deal (the highest point on the gap at around mile 23)is just over 1500 feet over 65 miles. That is an average of about 25 feet elevation change every mile.

That isn't too bad, that is less than the 1.75 percent grade going from Cumberland to Deal.

If you can do 78 miles a day without worrying about the distance you will be fine.

You go down around 500 feet in the last 7 or 8 miles to Frostburg.

In August, I did Confluence to Cumberland in an easy 62 mile day. You would be adding 28 easy miles from Connelsville to Confluence and subtracting 16 really, really easy downhill miles from Frostburg to Cumberland - very doable.

My wife and I have biked from Ohiopyle to Cumberland 75 miles in appx. 7 hours including lunch in Connelsville. Wasn't difficult at all. Had a bit of rain the last 8 miles or so. It was mid Oct. so we finished just about dark. I was 59 at the time she was 64 but we bike a lot.

Back in August, four of us did the GAP from West Newton to Cumberland in two days. A blog write up here: http://security.typepad.com/internet_security_be_care/2016/08/john-carole-chris-june-their-excellent-adventures.html

One of the riders, Chris, enjoyed it so much, a few weeks later he went back and parked his car in Cumberland, biked in 3 days to Pittsburgh, and took Amtrak back to his car. Blog post here: http://security.typepad.com/internet_security_be_care/2016/10/guest-blogger-chris-does-the-entire-great-allegheny-passage-trail.html

In another post in the blog, I've detailed my wife and I doing the 34 mile Virginia Creeper trail.