C&O surface
- + I've done several multi day (3-5) rides along the Passage/C&O. I understand fully that the Passage was a rail line and the C&O was a towpath. Hence the difference in trail surface and grading. I'd rea...
Discussion started 07/29/2013 01:39 PM by Rick Hancock - 18 replies (last reply by anonymous at 10/28/2013 03:29 PM)Rick Hancock from Grafton, Va. on 07/29/2013 01:39 PM
I've done several multi day (3-5) rides along the Passage/C&O. I understand fully that the Passage was a rail line and the C&O was a towpath. Hence the difference in trail surface and grading. I'd really like to see the NPS consider making the towpath more user friendly. I know that a lot of people might disagree but my thought is that by grading and installing cruser run/limestone the trail would be apt to draining more effciently and the problems with erosion and ruts might be corrected. I don't feel that this would take away from the historical aspect. I do think it might help perserve the trail. Not looking to start a firestorm just wondering what people think.
Anonymous on 07/29/2013 05:03 PM
All I will say is when I rode it in the rain the trail got miserably muddy and I got tired of puddle jumping.It just wasn't a fun ride at that point. Rideable but not fun.
JJB from Fairmont, WV on 07/29/2013 08:35 PM
We have had this discussion with some folks in Cumberland who are associated with the trail town project and the TrailBook. The C&O is a national park and they, (the park), want to keep it the way it is, as much as possible. The trail town folks want to see it developed, as in a business model. Easier passage on the trail they claim will bring more people to it and therefore more people will learn about the national park...everyone wins. Personally I'm on the fence about this. When I am on the C&O I sure do wish it was smoother and dry but when I look back, (through rose colored glasses??), the mud puddles, rocks and roots are what make it the C&O! and not just another trail running by a river.
Paul from Quincy, IL on 08/02/2013 07:03 PM
"The C&O is a national park and they, (the park), want to keep it the way it is, as much as possible."
I can understand not wanting vacation homes, condominiums, water parks, motor home parking lots, etc. springing up along the canal. But why would they object to maintaining the towpath to a higher standard. The cost perhaps?
Roy from Middletown, OH on 08/02/2013 07:53 PM
What would Yosemite be without tremendous, mountainous trails: too difficult to hike for many? Want to hike Yosemite? Get in shape, strap on your pack and get ready to sweat!!Should trails be graded to be made more accessible? Escalators installed? Moving conveyors as in an airport? Historic relates to the preserving of the way it was, not catering to the needs of economic engines or those who find themselves out of their comfort zone. The trail is the way the trail was! Enjoyable, but perhaps not always fun.
Stillridng from Pittsburgh, PA. on 08/02/2013 11:47 PM
Only my opinion. If they don't up grade the C&O (in some sections) they will lose some of it in the next 15 to 25 years. I have only ridden a total of about 100 miles of the towpath and while all the sections where ride-able some sections of the canal was so grown in with trees it did not look like anything existed except a path. What good will it be if that happens. Riding past a lock and a lock house that had been restored was so much nicer then one that was not. Up grading the towpath would mean that a lot more people or families could see the history of the towpath first hand. I don't want to see the history disappear.
Paul A on 08/03/2013 09:26 PM
Keep in mind that the passage is a lot newer than the C+O. In 50 years they may look the same, who knows.
Rick Hancock from Grafton, Va on 08/06/2013 06:05 PM
I'm a thru hiker of the Appalachian Trail. And have hiked several other trails as well. I fully understand "strapping on a pack or straddling a bike and just accepting what the given trail has to offer. My thought was preservation and presentation. Proper maintenance would help preserve the C&O in a useable condition that wouldn't promote more damage. And proper upkeep would allow more usage by a wider group. As I stated I understand the historical significance and I imagine that the money isn't there for vast improvements. I have no problem with the strenuousness of riding the trail and seldom take the elevator or escalator if stairs are available.
B One on 10/03/2013 05:40 PM
I just completed a ride from Pittsburgh to DC along the GAP and C & O towpath. I'm not sure why you would want to change the surface. There are plenty of sidewalks and roads for riding if you require a smooth surface. The Towpath is a unique and interesting destination. Changing the surface to make it easier for a few folks to ride would be disappointing. IMHO
Greg K from Chicago on 10/04/2013 10:21 AM
How was the C&O? Did the closure affect you or did you get clear before it hit?
Paul A on 10/06/2013 10:57 PM
Let me play devil's advocate here.
Wouldn't upgrading the surface of the C+O be like paving roads in the more famous national parks? That's what allows people to drive in and enjoy all there is to enjoy. Personally, it was fine from a hiker's point of view. Maybe more of us ought to walk it, as the mules did :)
Rick Hancock from Grafton, Va. on 10/07/2013 06:09 PM
B1, I didn't ask for a sidewalk or smooth road. If you'd taken the time to read and understand my post you'd realize that my concerns/thoughts were based solely on preservation and continued use of this popular trail. I've logged close to 6000 miles of Rails To Trails, single track/fire roads, and very little road miles. I've seen trails in the Smokey Mt National Park that through continued use/misuse were rutted as deep as 3'. I'm not talking about "making the trail easy for a few people" I'm talking about the future of the C&O. There are several stretches between Cumberland and Little Orleans that were pretty rough with 4"-6" ruts and large patches of mud that over time will just get worse.
Naismith from Florida on 10/22/2013 10:38 AM
We rode a lot on the C & O in the rain--Little Orleans to Cumberland. Maybe partly due to our tires, but I never felt that I was going to slip, even going through water. The undersurface was sound.
By comparison, I was very unhappy with the GAP between Ohiopyle and Connellsville. There were patches of loose gravel that were very dangerous. I nearly lost control several times. Maybe they were planning on using a machine to press the gravel into place better--but it was scary as it was.
stillriding from Pgh. on 10/23/2013 10:24 AM
Hi Naismith, I enjoy reading comments and everyone has different views and I respect that. But after reading your last comment I had to LOL, for that I am sorry. Calling the GAP dangerous and scary and the C&O sound was just too funny to me. Both trails for the most part are level and on a solid base. Now I would agree that the dangerous and scary part would come into play if you would go too far left or right and go over the hillside into the river or canal. Well keep riding and keep that sunny side up. These are all just our opinion and we mean well.
Anonymous on 10/23/2013 03:46 PM
I dont think anybody is wanting a total facelift of the TOWPATH, just simply filling in the ruts with a few shovels of gravel would suffice in my opinion. Dont change it, just help it a little bit for people who get tired of riding in mud pulddles all day when it rains.
Naismith from Florida on 10/23/2013 07:02 PM
To be fair, I was not comparing the entire surface of each trail. I specifically found that there were several sections of large loose gravel on the stretch between Ohiopyle and Connellsville that was scary, because it was very slippery and I felt myself starting to lose control several times. I'm a bicycle commuter, so I deal with a lot of different terrain, and I was riding fairly wide Kenda Kross tires that should have dealt with the gravel as well as anything, but it was still slippery.
I realize that we were there late in the season, and this gravel looked new--it could be that machinery was going to come along later to pulverize, grind, or smooth it into place before next summer's season.
But one can be hurt by taking a tumble on a loaded bike, even if it doesn't mean falling over a cliff.
Anonymous on 10/24/2013 06:31 AM
Not to dismiss how you saw the trail, Im just wondering if you just happened to be there a day when they were working on a section of it because I honestly cant remember having any problems thru that area this year.Bet its fine now.
Anonymous on 10/28/2013 03:21 PM
The C&O Canal Trail is prone to extensive flooding throughout the entire system. Any attempt to make it into a rail trail with limestone, etc, would be a waste of money because it would wash out in just one season.
**
In today's budget conscious Congress good luck getting funding to make annual repairs. In fact, most of those Tea Baggers would probably like to pull all funding for all parks and recreation.
Let's just keep the historical integrity of the C&O and be happy with the funding we do get. I once asked the Park Service to expand Parking at Little Orleans and the response was that though they would love to expand parking, there is no funding to accomplish it.
**
As I mentioned earlier the C&O is prone to extensive Flooding so any investment could wash out in one season. We're darn lucky we were able to get the improvements (after many years) at Big Slackater and you can thank TARP money for that.
Your idea is a good one, but not practical for a 184 mile trail system that borders the Potomac River.
Anonymous on 10/28/2013 03:29 PM
If anyone feels there should be improvements and see the need to clean up debris and fill in mud holes, etc., please feel free to volunteer and help out. Volunteers do most of the heavy lifting on the C&O and they work very hard at it. If any of you are volunteers, thank you!
**
Please consider volunteering your time to assist in trail maintenance.
Rental Car access from the Mt Vernon trail
- + I am riding from Cumberland, MD to DC and would like to use a rental car for return trip. Has anyone rode their bike using the Mount Vernon trail to the car rental location at Reagan Int Airport? I ...
Discussion started 05/16/2013 10:28 AM by Randy - 2 replies (last reply by Paul at 10/27/2013 02:52 PM)Randy on 05/16/2013 10:28 AM
I am riding from Cumberland, MD to DC and would like to use a rental car for return trip. Has anyone rode their bike using the Mount Vernon trail to the car rental location at Reagan Int Airport? I would like to know if the rental location is safely or conveniently accessed by bicycle from the the Mt Vernon trail. Thanks for any info.
Jeff Thompson from Souderton on 10/26/2013 03:11 PM
I would like to know this also. If you have any info could you shoot me an e-mail?
Paul from Pittsburgh on 10/27/2013 02:52 PM
Jeff, I just did this on my trip this month, although I rented a car and returned to Pittsburgh. Most rental car agencies only do one way rentals to major airport locations, but since I live near the Pittsburgh airport, this was convenient for me. I used Dollar, they had a location that was a few blocks off site of Reagan International. I stayed at a hotel in Arlington which was an easy 7 mile ride entirely on the Custis/Mt Vernon Trails until I got near the Dollar location. Then it was just about 3 blocks on roads, pretty easy and safe.
I think your only option to return to Cumberland is Hertz. I checked into this because of the govt shutdown, in case I could not continue past Cumberland, and Hertz was the only option I found that had a location in Cumberland AND did one way rentals. I think their Arlington location is on airport premises. I don't imagine it would be a problem at all to bike there, since the Mt Vernon Trail literally goes right to the airport entrance.
1st trip on the C&O/GAP
- + Hello all, I am preparing to take my first trip on the C&O/GAP trails. I am leaving on May 3, 2014 from Georgetown to Pittsburg, Pa. My question is, when I get to Pittsburg is it logical to think th...
Discussion started 09/19/2013 05:34 PM by Scott - 5 replies (last reply by Naismith at 10/22/2013 10:41 AM)Scott from Powhatan, Virginia on 09/19/2013 05:34 PM
Hello all, I am preparing to take my first trip on the C&O/GAP trails. I am leaving on May 3, 2014 from Georgetown to Pittsburg, Pa. My question is, when I get to Pittsburg is it logical to think that I can rent a truck or a van that will carry a couple riders and the rigs? Would this be a resource that is somewhat close to the end of the trail? Any help is appreciated.
Angie from Central PA on 09/19/2013 07:46 PM
My husband and I did the opposite direction and rented a one way Budget car to the local office just a few blocks away from the end at Point State Park. Look up rental cars on Stanwix st. in Pittsburgh, and you will find the location. There appeared to be other car rental places available in that general area, but that one was the closest.
We actually arrived in torrential rain, and we were happy to find that the location is in a parking garage, so it made it easy to unload and get set up.
Anonymous on 09/20/2013 01:42 PM
Thanks Angie, I appreciate your input. Gonna check that place out.
Naismith from Florida on 09/21/2013 06:31 PM
We have a reservation to pick up an SUV at the Stanwix St. Budget when we are at the end, so thanks for confirming that might work--and to look for it in the parking garage.
Angie from Central PA on 09/21/2013 08:14 PM
Glad it was helpful. You may know that Budget is owned by/related to Avis, but if not, it will help to know that they don't have a Budget car sign outside, but rather the Avis sign. (We circled the block a few times and were confused, ...had to ask someone on the street.)
Naismith from Florida on 10/22/2013 10:41 AM
Yes, this was incredibly helpful and saved us oodles of time, in the rain. They were good about letting us bring the bikes into the office and down the elevator to our SUV.
grade from Cumberland to Frostburg
- + How steep is the trail from Cumberland to Frostburg? My 10 year old son and I are doing an out and back there soon and just wondering if it is steep.
thank you
Discussion started 10/20/2013 08:16 PM by Philoanna - 1 reply (last reply by Naismith at 10/21/2013 11:45 AM)Philoanna from St. Michaels, MD on 10/20/2013 08:16 PM
How steep is the trail from Cumberland to Frostburg? My 10 year old son and I are doing an out and back there soon and just wondering if it is steep.
thank you
Naismith from Florida on 10/21/2013 11:45 AM
There is an elevation change from 627 to 2070 feet over the 16 miles. The grade is supposed to be never more than 1.5%, but that may be an average. And after Frostburg, there is another 8 miles before the Continental Divide.
This is part of why on our recent trip we never met another person doing the GAP from east to west. Everyone we met was going the other way.
And it is not that they were wimpy to ride that stretch up, but rather that they loved the 18 mph riding downhill into Cumberland:)
This is why we had so many conversations about the WMR train. When they found out we were riding westward, they cautioned us about how challenging that stretch would be, and we explained we were taking the train, and then they warned us it was not taking bikes in October, which isn't true.
Valley Dairy in Connellsville
- + Isn't this a restaurant? My nephew and I ate there last July when we cycled from McKeesport to Cumberland. By the way GREAT food, GREAT service, and REASONABLY priced.
Discussion started 04/21/2011 03:04 PM by Carl Weiss - 3 replies (last reply by Naismith at 10/20/2013 07:59 PM)Carl Weiss from Chickamauga, GA on 04/21/2011 03:04 PM
Isn't this a restaurant? My nephew and I ate there last July when we cycled from McKeesport to Cumberland. By the way GREAT food, GREAT service, and REASONABLY priced.
Paul from Quincy, IL on 07/24/2013 10:15 PM
I was when we had breakfast there in 2010. I'll second your opinion of it.
vabiker23518 from Williamsburg, VA on 07/25/2013 09:00 AM
My wife and I LOVED Valley Dairy...great ice cream on those hot summer days!
Naismith from Florida on 10/20/2013 07:59 PM
Another plus is that there isn't loud background music and there is great sound absorption, so it is a great place for a quiet conversation, even with someone who wears hearing aids.
Western Maryland Railroad Schedule
- + I called the WMSR to inquire about the possibility of taking the train from Cumberland to Frostburg in order to avoid some uphill and add a different kind of adventure to the mix. I was surprised to ...
Discussion started 06/30/2013 05:48 PM by Naismith - 3 replies (last reply by Naismith at 10/20/2013 07:55 PM)Naismith from Florida on 06/30/2013 05:48 PM
I called the WMSR to inquire about the possibility of taking the train from Cumberland to Frostburg in order to avoid some uphill and add a different kind of adventure to the mix. I was surprised to learn that they do not allow bicycles on any weekend during the month of October. There was nothing to indicate this on their website.
We were able to work around things, but I can only imagine that there are other times as well affected by their non-bike policies. So be sure to call; don't assume that it would be obvious from their website.
Paul from Quincy, IL on 07/24/2013 01:39 PM
Strange. I could understand it if bikes were carried in the coaches and they wanted the space for all the leaf peepers.
But the last time we biked Pittsburgh to Cumberland, the train just happened to pull into the Frostburg station while we were there. It had a bike car that didn't look all that suitable for revenue passengers. Picture: http://biketrain.x10.mx/GAP/pics/msrr3.jpg
Rick Hancok from Grafton, Va on 07/29/2013 01:24 PM
Fall 2 years ago you were able to transport your bike for a fee seperate from your normal ticket price. My bike and several other's were placed in a "mail car" no seats. I paid for a round trip ticket even though I was only taking the train one way. I felt that this was slightly unfair but excepted it. THis was at the peak of the Fall season.
Naismith from Florida on 10/20/2013 07:55 PM
The buzz on the trail at breakfasts etc. was that there were no bikes carried on the train at all during October, and I nearly panicked, forgetting that I actually had reservations already:)
But no, they were still carrying bikes on weekdays only in October. And there were at least 20 bikes on our Friday.
They can make more money by carrying one more passenger car instead of the baggage car.
GAP to Johnstown
- + I am looking for details or directions on how to visit Johnstown Flood Museum from the GAP trail. I want to bike as safely as possible.
Thanks
Discussion started 08/20/2013 12:09 PM by David - 6 replies (last reply by Naismith at 10/20/2013 07:43 PM)David from Virginia on 08/20/2013 12:09 PM
I am looking for details or directions on how to visit Johnstown Flood Museum from the GAP trail. I want to bike as safely as possible.
Thanks
Stillridng from Pittsburgh, PA. on 08/20/2013 03:16 PM
David, I don't see that happening. The closed GAP trail town to Johnstown, PA. is Rockwood, PA. and there are no bicycle trails in between. Also that distance is about 40 miles one way on some narrow roads. Good luck with that but safety would be a big concern.
lenny on 08/21/2013 04:20 AM
As stillriding stated: You can't get there from the GAP on a bike trail.
Naismith from Florida on 08/21/2013 07:27 PM
We are planning to stop there by car after picking up an SUV in downtown Pittsburgh and driving back to southern Maryland. Has anyone been to the visitors center?
We are listening to David McCullough's book about the Johnstown Flood on our drive up to start the trail.
David from Virginia on 08/21/2013 11:18 PM
Thanks so much for the responses. I actually have family in the Johnstown-Windber area but they are elderly and unfamiliar with the GAP trail. I've been dreaming of riding the trail (Pittsburgh to Washington) in its entirety for a long time but it really hasn't been in the cards. My family has an upcoming trip to the area and I've
convinced the wife to let me out at Cumberland and I'll meet her there or very close. Looking at maps of the area gives me hope but can't really afford to get it wrong. If someone local to the route or area can tell me where or how they might exit the trail in the best location for getting near to Johnstown or Windber or getting picked up from someone traveling from that area I'd greatly appreciate.
Thanks again to those that have already responded.
Angie from central PA on 08/22/2013 12:14 AM
My husband and I just finished riding the trail. He is originally from that area, and I recognized route 219 when we stopped in Meyersdale. It goes straight through Meyersdale and traveling north will take you to Johnstown.
Meyersdale is large enough for a visitors center on the trail, which is accessible by car for a pickup. I would think it would be easy to get google map directions from where ever your wife will be prior to picking you up to the Meyersdale visitors center. If no address can be found for the visitor center, entering town on 219 and taking main street north-east will get you to the center.
People seemed very friendly in town, so if lost, asking around would get you straightened out.
Naismith from Florida on 10/20/2013 07:43 PM
We were disappointed that the museum was not open on the day we were there--they shift to winter hours (closed several days a week) after October 1, and it wasn't very clear on the website.
Long term parking at Cumberland trailhead.
- + Where can you park long term (1 week) in Cumberland if the National Park is closed. We use to park under the Interstate overpass.
Discussion started 10/04/2013 07:23 AM by Rick Hancock - 6 replies (last reply by Naismith at 10/20/2013 07:37 PM)Rick Hancock from Grafton on 10/04/2013 07:23 AM
Where can you park long term (1 week) in Cumberland if the National Park is closed. We use to park under the Interstate overpass.
Naismith from Florida on 10/05/2013 06:05 AM
We have been trying to find this out as well. It has been a C & O lot, and thus should be closed. But the ATA website says nothing.
Paul A on 10/06/2013 07:21 PM
I'd suggest you phone the Cumberland Trail Connection bicycle shop in Cumberland. I bet they'll have some suggestions for you.
Naismith from Florida on 10/06/2013 07:37 PM
Great minds--we called yesterday and they said that the parking lot is open
Rick Hancock from Grafton, Va on 10/07/2013 03:53 AM
I called the bike shop first but was looking for some additional input as I'm parking there for 4 days. Cumberland Connections told me no problem parking for multi days. Just wondering if anyone had done so since the closure.
Paul A on 10/09/2013 08:43 PM
Not since the closure, but my wife and I left our car there for 6 days while we hiked Connellsville to Cumberland, in July and didn't have any problems.
Naismith from Florida on 10/20/2013 07:37 PM
I finally did get an email back, and they said this was not shut down because it is a joint operation between three organizations: the C & O park, the Western Maryland Historical Society, and the GAP folks.
Trip blog
- + As we were planning our Sept 2013 trip down the GAP and C&O, we found it useful to read others blogs. Here's our blog--we were not the typical trail users as we took our time to travel from Pittsburg...
Discussion started 10/12/2013 01:15 PM by Judy - 1 reply (last reply by Naismith at 10/20/2013 07:33 PM)Judy from Austin on 10/12/2013 01:15 PM
As we were planning our Sept 2013 trip down the GAP and C&O, we found it useful to read others blogs. Here's our blog--we were not the typical trail users as we took our time to travel from Pittsburgh to DC.
downaroad.com
Naismith from Florida on 10/20/2013 07:33 PM
I am not sure there is a "typical trail user," which is a good thing. We were always made to feel welcome even if we are older folks who don't wear spandex.
Stonehouse B & B in Harpers Ferry
- + This is not listed in the Towns & Services and should be. http://hfstonehouse.com/
It is the closest B & B to the trail. He has a little yard, so bikes could be pulled in safely. This was ve...
Discussion started 10/20/2013 09:11 AM - 0 repliesAnonymous on 10/20/2013 09:11 AM
This is not listed in the Towns & Services and should be. http://hfstonehouse.com/
It is the closest B & B to the trail. He has a little yard, so bikes could be pulled in safely. This was very clean, and he left enough historic stuff while making it comfortable.
The only downside is the noise of trains all night, as it is quite close to train tracks--but that is true of much lodging along both trails.