C&O / GAP Forum

Hi all, I am planning to ride/camp from Pittsburgh to Washington DC next week on my Brompton (tiny folding bicycle).

What are the worst spots for tiny 16 inch diameter wheeled biking? I have read of loose gravel, and muddy potholes,(in the rain).

Anything else i should know about?

thanks, see you out there...

Ha Ha. Your joking right. I looked online at this bike and it looks like you could fit it in a small suitcase.

Alright now. Be nice. This is a forum to encourage riding the trails, not to be judgemental of the types of bicycles used.

I too looked up a Brompton bicycle. I have not read anything about them nor do I know anything about them. Is it a sturdy bike? The C&O can be fairly rough in some spots. I guess I would be worried how well it will hold up. I am not sure what terrain / purpose it is designed for. I am curious if you are doing a supported ride. If not, may I ask what you will do for storage of supplies? Panniers?

Back to the trail. The C&O can get some good sized mud puddles that can be relatively deep too. Your feet could get soaked(?) The GAP should not cause you any problems as far as roughness goes.

Good luck on your ride and let us know how it goes. Someone else may be able to use the info. you provide.

I just biked the entire PGH to DC trail about a week and a half ago. I had a hybrid with 700x38c tires and had no problems, but my bike is a dual sport with front-suspension and designed to take a bit of a pounding, which it certainly got on the C&O.

I think you'd be perfectly fine on the the GAP, it was in great shape, and even when it rains, the crushed limestone surface drains well. There was some patches of loose gravel between Ohiopyle and Connellsville, but I don't think that would be a problem for your bike.

Now the C&O is another story. When I passed through, the first several miles of the trail from Cumberland was basically a mud pit. I stopped and helped one guy with a mountain bike remove his fenders because the mud was caked up in them and causing issues. I can't imagine your tiny wheels with fenders would handle that well. Then, you'll face the constant barrage of roots that you WILL hit hard because the trail is covered with leaves this time of year and it makes obstacles hard to see. My least favorite part was actually between Great Falls and Georgetown where the trail basically becomes embedded rocks, where it's like riding on a cobblestone street. Is your bike rugged enough for all this? :) Good luck and have fun!

I just biked from Washington D.C. to Pittsburgh last week - Wed through Fri, and I found the trails to be in wonderful shape. Stick to the route used the most on the trails and you will have smooth travel the entire way. Enjoy your ride!

I was thinking of riding the trail on a tricycle with little red ribbons. I was going to tie a radio flyer wagon behind to haul my gear. Do you think that will be okay? LOL :)

I think it would be a great idea, just don't forget your light and horn.

Come on guys.Let up. I suggest you go to another site if you are just going to be sarcastic. Sorry, just the way I feel. Keep it positive.

Well, i took my Brompton in an Ortlieb backpack on the MegaBus from Philly to Pittsburg with a tent and sleeping bag. Got out of the bus Monday 3:30 pm and made it to DC by Sunday 11 am. 6 days with peak colors in the leaves and rain only one night; no rain during any riding.
I'm 48 and did the ride solo with no assistance, carrying my camping gear on my bike, (nothing on my back).
I am used to sharing the road with auto drivers, (why would anyone drive a car anywhere?).
I'd like to think nobody has ever ridden a Brompton from Pittsburgh to DC on this trail, (or at least not as fast as me).
Next time, I'll use a bigger wheel bike though.

It's funny how some of you pups are trying to break my balls. None of you can do what i did on 16 inch 100 psi wheels in November even though i averaged under 60 miles per day.

Yea, i carried my folding bicycle, tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad in a backpack on my back onto the bus, and stowed it in the cargo hold for $24 one way total.

It was a great trip and I'm sure to do it again.

thanks for the comments, (some were funny).

philly painter

A big congratulations to you. That is definitely a big achievement. Yes and the color of the trees are just beautiful this time of year. Glad you followed up with your original comment, completed your ride and were able to have a laugh at some of the other comments. Again, congratulations.

I to congratulate you.

I'm glad to hear you had a good trip. It doesn't matter what size wheels you did it on as long as you enjoyed yourself. Heck, I didn't use any wheels, I hiked the trail.

Congratulations and I too am glad you responded. I have ridden the northern stretches of the trail on my folding bike (DAHON) and it has always held up well. I ride rail trails nearly every wknd all over the East Coast and have never had a problem with my bike. Mine is full size 26" wheels , 7 speeds which is all i ever need on the trails. I really loved the Paw Paw tunnel! BG

In September I did the GAP from the Pittsburgh Amtrak to Cumberland Amtrak with a group of 6, 4 of who rode 20" Dahon's.

For those who might not be aware, Brompton and Dahon are bitter enemies, sort of like two religions. I suspect that the negative comments came from Dahon owners in disguise.

You got to love this place. Very upscale and DC swank. We all stopped in for a last libation before we hit the alcohol blackout before Point-of-Rocks. Got some interesting looks from folks and questions like, do you sleep on the trail, where do you go to the bathroom or seen any bears? Good menu, fantastic bar. Little on the pricy side but worth it.

Sounds like alcohol is your top priority.

Not listed, but Captain Bender’s in Sharpsburg is a great little place to stop for lunch. Fantastic selection of micro brews too! Check it out the next time you’re cursing around the Antietam Battlefield. You won’t be disappointed.

Thanks for the tip - I have added this to to the Sharpsburg page.

I hoping you meant "crusing" not "cursing" around the Battlefield. :)

Excellent pasta dishes. Their Pizza is to die for. A welcome experience after a couple of day on the trail. Highly recommend.

Concur, excellent Italian cuisine.

Good deli also serves breakfast. Modest grocery selection; does sell beer, wine and liquor!

There is a side trail that comes out between the Park-in-Dine and Potomac Liquor store off the WMRT so you don’t have to come off at the Park-n-Ride lot about 100 feet east and brave traffic on Main Street. You can also exit the Railtrail at the hardware store to access Hardee’s across the street.

This is not listed but around mile post 91, between Opequon Junction and Cumberland Valley campsites, there is a private camp ground (listed as the Potomac Fish and Game Club) near the Falling Waters ford. There is a rest room and potable water there. Be courteous and ask first. I have never been refused. Sometimes there are BBQ’s on the weekends and you can buy a meal from them.

I'm writing to plead that you take the McMahon's Mill Campground OFF your website C & O Canal Towpath camping options.

First off, let me say that my family loves and appreciates your web page and the vast amount of information you provide. We print out the information and use it while we bike on the towpath. My family of 5 (13 year old daughter, 10 year old daughter, 2 year old son, husband, and myself) have been traveling from Virginia for 15 months now to bike the C & O. We come for the weekend, tow all our camping gear and food, spend the night on the towpath, and bike as far as we can each trip. It has taken us over a year, but this past weekend we officially finished biking the entire towpath!

We have never been disappointed with the information your website provides, which is why I'm writing to share our experience, in the hopes that you will please update your information for the sake of other biker-campers. Let me first explain that my family is not afraid to "rough it". Up until this trip, we have always camped at the hiker-biker campsites right along the towpath. Filtering our own water and using the provided outhouses. We do this with a teenage daughter, preteen daughter, and a toddler and we like it and have a wonderful time.

This past weekend, we wanted to stay at the Cumberland Valley H/B site, but the pump was broken. We needed more water, so we tried to filter water from the Potomac, but the access to the river at that site wasn't great, so we decided to keep biking. We reached the Opequon Junction H/B with the intentions of camping there, but there were already 3 tents set up and it is a rather small site, so our large tent wouldn't fit. We were exhausted and couldn't make it to Big Woods H/B, so we decided to do something we'd never done. We biked off the towpath up to a campsite, McMahon's Mill Campground.

It was scary from the moment we hit the property. The buildings were dilapidated, deserted, overgrow

also heard from biker in hancock how bad the place was he went on to williamsport

Cruised by just to check this place out. Yea, it’s a real dump. Sad that it has been neglected for so long. Looks like it was once a nice place to stay and enjoy.

This place is a real God send since there is no hostel like lodging in Cumberland. A short ride/walk from the trail terminus; be careful when you go under the bridge, narrow road and folks do not yield to cyclist or pedestrians kindly.

Still CLOSED!

There is an AC&T convenience store just up the road at the interstate interchange. Has deli, had the fried chicken dinner for lunch. Basic resupply for snacks and soda.

If you’re looking for a little south of the boarder for the taste buds, this is your stop. Good menu selection, friendly service and great value. TB got nothing on this place!

Good food! Clean, cpmfortable seating, generous portions. Excellent value. A must stop for dinner if staying at the Red Roof across the street.

I second the recommendation!

Concur. Very nice. A welcome change from the traditional grub found along the canal trail. Try the Spicy Orange Beef. Yum Yummmmm….

Great place to jump start your morning. Excellent selection of coffee, espresso, and cappuccinos. Also have large variety of freshly baked goods and breakfast items to go. Friendly staff, very hiker-biker friendly. Must stop and visit.

Anybody know the distance,route to the White House from the DC end of the Towpath? Thanks.

Well, the 0 mile marker is pretty close to the mall, and the mall is pretty close to the White House so.........

Google says 1.3 miles. http://goo.gl/maps/r0UuY

thanks. I guess I could have looked at the pdf map but Im lazy. Just curious how easy it would be to ride over there vs. traffic.

Cumberland. Looking for a campground to say at one night and leave vehicle for a week while we ride. Anyone kn ow of one close?

You can leave your vehicle in the long term lot in Cumberland by registering it at the visitor center. There's a hiker/biker campsite about 5 miles east of Cumberland on the C+O Trail.

The local YMCA allows camping and use of their facility during business hours. There is a minimal cost for non-Y members, but free to members. It's about a mile from the nexus of trail universe...(convergence of GAP/C&O)

I've done several multi day (3-5) rides along the Passage/C&O. I understand fully that the Passage was a rail line and the C&O was a towpath. Hence the difference in trail surface and grading. I'd really like to see the NPS consider making the towpath more user friendly. I know that a lot of people might disagree but my thought is that by grading and installing cruser run/limestone the trail would be apt to draining more effciently and the problems with erosion and ruts might be corrected. I don't feel that this would take away from the historical aspect. I do think it might help perserve the trail. Not looking to start a firestorm just wondering what people think.

All I will say is when I rode it in the rain the trail got miserably muddy and I got tired of puddle jumping.It just wasn't a fun ride at that point. Rideable but not fun.

We have had this discussion with some folks in Cumberland who are associated with the trail town project and the TrailBook. The C&O is a national park and they, (the park), want to keep it the way it is, as much as possible. The trail town folks want to see it developed, as in a business model. Easier passage on the trail they claim will bring more people to it and therefore more people will learn about the national park...everyone wins. Personally I'm on the fence about this. When I am on the C&O I sure do wish it was smoother and dry but when I look back, (through rose colored glasses??), the mud puddles, rocks and roots are what make it the C&O! and not just another trail running by a river.

"The C&O is a national park and they, (the park), want to keep it the way it is, as much as possible."

I can understand not wanting vacation homes, condominiums, water parks, motor home parking lots, etc. springing up along the canal. But why would they object to maintaining the towpath to a higher standard. The cost perhaps?

What would Yosemite be without tremendous, mountainous trails: too difficult to hike for many? Want to hike Yosemite? Get in shape, strap on your pack and get ready to sweat!!Should trails be graded to be made more accessible? Escalators installed? Moving conveyors as in an airport? Historic relates to the preserving of the way it was, not catering to the needs of economic engines or those who find themselves out of their comfort zone. The trail is the way the trail was! Enjoyable, but perhaps not always fun.

Only my opinion. If they don't up grade the C&O (in some sections) they will lose some of it in the next 15 to 25 years. I have only ridden a total of about 100 miles of the towpath and while all the sections where ride-able some sections of the canal was so grown in with trees it did not look like anything existed except a path. What good will it be if that happens. Riding past a lock and a lock house that had been restored was so much nicer then one that was not. Up grading the towpath would mean that a lot more people or families could see the history of the towpath first hand. I don't want to see the history disappear.

Keep in mind that the passage is a lot newer than the C+O. In 50 years they may look the same, who knows.

I'm a thru hiker of the Appalachian Trail. And have hiked several other trails as well. I fully understand "strapping on a pack or straddling a bike and just accepting what the given trail has to offer. My thought was preservation and presentation. Proper maintenance would help preserve the C&O in a useable condition that wouldn't promote more damage. And proper upkeep would allow more usage by a wider group. As I stated I understand the historical significance and I imagine that the money isn't there for vast improvements. I have no problem with the strenuousness of riding the trail and seldom take the elevator or escalator if stairs are available.

I just completed a ride from Pittsburgh to DC along the GAP and C & O towpath. I'm not sure why you would want to change the surface. There are plenty of sidewalks and roads for riding if you require a smooth surface. The Towpath is a unique and interesting destination. Changing the surface to make it easier for a few folks to ride would be disappointing. IMHO

How was the C&O? Did the closure affect you or did you get clear before it hit?

Let me play devil's advocate here.
Wouldn't upgrading the surface of the C+O be like paving roads in the more famous national parks? That's what allows people to drive in and enjoy all there is to enjoy. Personally, it was fine from a hiker's point of view. Maybe more of us ought to walk it, as the mules did :)

B1, I didn't ask for a sidewalk or smooth road. If you'd taken the time to read and understand my post you'd realize that my concerns/thoughts were based solely on preservation and continued use of this popular trail. I've logged close to 6000 miles of Rails To Trails, single track/fire roads, and very little road miles. I've seen trails in the Smokey Mt National Park that through continued use/misuse were rutted as deep as 3'. I'm not talking about "making the trail easy for a few people" I'm talking about the future of the C&O. There are several stretches between Cumberland and Little Orleans that were pretty rough with 4"-6" ruts and large patches of mud that over time will just get worse.

We rode a lot on the C & O in the rain--Little Orleans to Cumberland. Maybe partly due to our tires, but I never felt that I was going to slip, even going through water. The undersurface was sound.

By comparison, I was very unhappy with the GAP between Ohiopyle and Connellsville. There were patches of loose gravel that were very dangerous. I nearly lost control several times. Maybe they were planning on using a machine to press the gravel into place better--but it was scary as it was.

Hi Naismith, I enjoy reading comments and everyone has different views and I respect that. But after reading your last comment I had to LOL, for that I am sorry. Calling the GAP dangerous and scary and the C&O sound was just too funny to me. Both trails for the most part are level and on a solid base. Now I would agree that the dangerous and scary part would come into play if you would go too far left or right and go over the hillside into the river or canal. Well keep riding and keep that sunny side up. These are all just our opinion and we mean well.

I dont think anybody is wanting a total facelift of the TOWPATH, just simply filling in the ruts with a few shovels of gravel would suffice in my opinion. Dont change it, just help it a little bit for people who get tired of riding in mud pulddles all day when it rains.

To be fair, I was not comparing the entire surface of each trail. I specifically found that there were several sections of large loose gravel on the stretch between Ohiopyle and Connellsville that was scary, because it was very slippery and I felt myself starting to lose control several times. I'm a bicycle commuter, so I deal with a lot of different terrain, and I was riding fairly wide Kenda Kross tires that should have dealt with the gravel as well as anything, but it was still slippery.

I realize that we were there late in the season, and this gravel looked new--it could be that machinery was going to come along later to pulverize, grind, or smooth it into place before next summer's season.

But one can be hurt by taking a tumble on a loaded bike, even if it doesn't mean falling over a cliff.

Not to dismiss how you saw the trail, Im just wondering if you just happened to be there a day when they were working on a section of it because I honestly cant remember having any problems thru that area this year.Bet its fine now.

The C&O Canal Trail is prone to extensive flooding throughout the entire system. Any attempt to make it into a rail trail with limestone, etc, would be a waste of money because it would wash out in just one season.
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In today's budget conscious Congress good luck getting funding to make annual repairs. In fact, most of those Tea Baggers would probably like to pull all funding for all parks and recreation.
Let's just keep the historical integrity of the C&O and be happy with the funding we do get. I once asked the Park Service to expand Parking at Little Orleans and the response was that though they would love to expand parking, there is no funding to accomplish it.
**
As I mentioned earlier the C&O is prone to extensive Flooding so any investment could wash out in one season. We're darn lucky we were able to get the improvements (after many years) at Big Slackater and you can thank TARP money for that.
Your idea is a good one, but not practical for a 184 mile trail system that borders the Potomac River.

If anyone feels there should be improvements and see the need to clean up debris and fill in mud holes, etc., please feel free to volunteer and help out. Volunteers do most of the heavy lifting on the C&O and they work very hard at it. If any of you are volunteers, thank you!
**
Please consider volunteering your time to assist in trail maintenance.

I am riding from Cumberland, MD to DC and would like to use a rental car for return trip. Has anyone rode their bike using the Mount Vernon trail to the car rental location at Reagan Int Airport? I would like to know if the rental location is safely or conveniently accessed by bicycle from the the Mt Vernon trail. Thanks for any info.

I would like to know this also. If you have any info could you shoot me an e-mail?

Jeff, I just did this on my trip this month, although I rented a car and returned to Pittsburgh. Most rental car agencies only do one way rentals to major airport locations, but since I live near the Pittsburgh airport, this was convenient for me. I used Dollar, they had a location that was a few blocks off site of Reagan International. I stayed at a hotel in Arlington which was an easy 7 mile ride entirely on the Custis/Mt Vernon Trails until I got near the Dollar location. Then it was just about 3 blocks on roads, pretty easy and safe.

I think your only option to return to Cumberland is Hertz. I checked into this because of the govt shutdown, in case I could not continue past Cumberland, and Hertz was the only option I found that had a location in Cumberland AND did one way rentals. I think their Arlington location is on airport premises. I don't imagine it would be a problem at all to bike there, since the Mt Vernon Trail literally goes right to the airport entrance.