C&O / GAP Forum

Ray, you gotta make a site for this one!
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/new-yorks-750-mile-empire-state-trail-completed?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2gIUPnK4wzc8E_g6GbY0tK5G73wm5q9XxB-G1p1S4zitUCq5p1DRvYhIs

He has the basic east-west portion, i.e. the Erie Canal Trail, on his site at:

https://bikeeriecanal.com/

Rivnuts, thanks for helping me along. Reading still continues to be a struggle for me, apparently. :)

True! Sorry for being a grump.

the bigger question is why are all of these "rail-trail" sites not linked on a single page?

I value this forum for updates & support. I often wonder if I could cross country ski anywhere on the canal. While it may seem unrelated, this SkiWise mobile app has potential for sharing mutli-use trail conditions. So far it's only populated with cross country ski trails. Maybe if the developer sees more demand it could be expanded. https://www.facebook.com/SkiwiseApp.

Went to look at the temporary crossing for culvert 82 between lander Lock 29 and Brunswick. With the high water the temporary crossing is completely washed out. One section was pitched up on the bank toward lock 29 the other two sections were washed out into the river. That was at 10:30 Am on Christmas day. The water was still rising and the condition of the foundations is unknown due to them being underwater. I will check again during the weekend.

It was bound to happen sooner or later. I guess I'm heading north today. :) Thanks!

Hopefully now that they know where to put the temporary crossing (and what materials are required), they can rebuild it in the early spring before riders start coming through.

Does anyone know if the C&O has concrete plans to build a permanent bridge?

John

This is the trail that hasn't figured out that gravel is a nicer surface than mud, so I wouldn't expect too much.

Perhaps, but NPS does deserve some love for the resurfacing they’ve done from Shepherdstown to Edward’s Ferry :-)

Below is a notice posted on the GAP website summarizing the NPS's announcement of the closure of the Paw Paw Tunnel until mid-2022. Note the 8.7 to 11% uphill grades for the detour depending on which direction you are travelling as well as the additional time to traverse the bypass.

NOV 25 2020 | C&O Canal Towpath's Paw Paw Tunnel to Close; Detour Posted

On November 25, the National Park Service announced an immediate closure of the northern entrance of the Paw Paw Tunnel to protect travelers on the C&O Canal Towpath from falling rocks near the tunnel's northern approach. The NPS anticipates this closure will last until mid-2022.

According to the NPS, "during construction, visitors can walk into the Paw Paw Tunnel when approaching from the south but will not be able to continue past the north end of the tunnel. The south entrance is where day-use visitors access the tunnel already, and it is the closest entrance to the Paw Paw Tunnel campground and parking area. The campground and parking area will also remain open to through travelers on the towpath."

Cyclists may walk their bikes up and over the Paw Paw Tunnel using the Tunnel Bypass Trail, which features beautiful views of the Potomac River and Paw Paw, W. Va. The Tunnel Bypass Trail is approximately a mile and a half long with an elevation change of 375 feet. From the south (closer to the Paw Paw Tunnel parking lot), the Tunnel Bypass Trail begins by crossing the canal and climbs 0.63 miles to the top (or about one foot of rise per nine feet of distance). On the downstream (construction) end, the bypass begins where the Tunnel Hill Trail meets the towpath near mile marker 155 and climbs 0.82 miles to the top (one foot of rise per 11.5 feet of distance). This detour is open and available for runners and hikers, as well.

The NPS announcement itself can be found at:

https://www.nps.gov/choh/planyourvisit/pawpaw-closure.htm

Falling rocks....yikes!

Glad it’s a simple detour.

Thanks for sharing this!

John

I can't decide whether the "Tunnel Bypass Detour" is better or worse than the earlier detour required when the repair of the tunnel itself was being performed. That detour was long, steep, rock and root ridden and dangerous when wet. It was virtually unrideable except for a mountain biker not laden with bags. It required a good hour or more to traverse making a day trip from Cumberland to Hancock rather onerous for the recreational rider.

I guess I'll find out what this trail detour entails sometime next year.

That detour trail sounds pretty spicy. 9-11% is challenging, but if it's rocky or rooty or has steps, then you're beyond most people's ability to push even a lightly loaded bike. And going back downhill to the Canal trail might be an even bigger challenge.

Thanks for the updates!

The Tunnel Bypass trail is a terrible option. I have claustrophobia and seriously considered taking the trail (pre trip) instead of going through the Paw Paw itself. I arrived to rain and took one look at the trail and went right into the tunnel. A fully loaded bike on that trail is not an option. I would seriously look for an on road detour.

Looks like the river crossing ferry that connects the C&O Canal to Leesburg, VA is going to close because of a legal dispute. Local officials are tying to work something out because it's a vital transportation connection point.

This will be bad for cyclists as there would be no way to get to lodging or food options in Leesburg as well as no way to connect to the W&OD trail as some like to do.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/virginia/whites-ferry-closes-after-legal-dispute-loudoun-county-virginia-maryland/65-b2e30509-ec68-48c1-842d-693126824a87

It would appear like an attempt by the private plaintiff party to extort payment from the ferry operator. Given the importance and history of the ferry and it likely profitability, I expect this will ultimately be resolved.

How did you come across this info so quickly?

Ok, well, that explains the ferry detour signs I saw while driving down 15 today.

Rivnuts - Pure luck. I was reading an unrelated forum and this news story popped up. I just stumbled on it. 8 - ) Then when I later googled “White’s Ferry”, every DC news outlet seemed to have an article on it.

One other thing, it’s the only crossing over the Potomac for miles, I also expect it to be resolved and everything back to normal. But if it drags through the courts who knows how long it will take.

The Washington Post has a more detailed article on the conflict between the ferry operator and the property owner: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/whites-ferry-closed/2020/12/28/80ddac0e-4938-11eb-9025-57b4c8818a4a_story.html.

Looks like there are several new issues and a few that are not resolved from our last trip detailed here.

https://ttravel441155563.wordpress.com/

and that is not our bikes on that main page :) We plan to blog our next adventure too.

-JKT

https://theradavist.com/2020/12/touring-not-tourist-pittsburgh-to-dc-along-the-great-allegheny-passage/

The photos are quite good. Each subtly identifies the location where taken without any annotation.

Thanks for that link.

Today is Monday, December 7, 2020 and I just got off the phone and thought I would share this important information: “ PER PHONE CALL FROM LESLIE, WEST NEWTON TRAIL COUNCIL: "Dravo Cemetery is closed. The area will be used by the contract workers. No one is to canoe in, walk in or bike in to Dravo Cemetery area. Furthermore, The section of the trail which is closed also includes all the adjacent trail properties. Privately owned Henderson Road which leads down to Dravo is off-limits. However, the contract workers will be using Henderson Road." RE: 724 872 5586 Leslie” furthermore, you may access the trail at Buena Vista and bicycle or walk south towards West Newton etc.… But NOT North!.

Thanks for this info regarding Dravo Campground. Hope the construction contractor(s) don’t degrade the campground site. It has been carefully maintained and manicured over the years making it a favorite rest and camping location along the trail.

Is camping at the dravo cemetery/Qween Aliquippa camp possible during the present trail closure?

While camping per se’ at Dravo Cemetery is likely possible, the problem is getting there. In addition to the signs alerting riders to the trail closure schedule, there was an actual Trail Closed sign directly on the trail itself as you leave the Boston trailhead destined for Dravo Cemetery and beyond. I can’t speak to where similar signs may have now been installed approaching Dravo Cemetery from the other direction. Since the Dravo campground is only accessible from the trail, I think you have to presume you can’t get there during the ongoing construction unless, of course, you want to boat down the Youghiogheny River. :-)

Hi, Admin. Didn't I make a post with links to my recent GAP photos? Is that allowed? I am sure that I created it, but somehow I cannot find it.

Anything with a link gets checked first by admin before it becomes visible. Give it a day, likely even less than that.

Hmmm. OK, will keep watching.

Still hasn't shown up, so I tried again.

OK, submitted a post with links for pics again. It's been a couple weeks and it's not approved. Google Images is your source for GAP images. :)

Bill I apologize for all the trouble.

As John mentioned, some posts must be reviewed before they appear here. But there seems to have been a glitch in the program that notified me when posts are waiting for review. I'm sorry about that, but we should be good now.

I've done the following to make sure your posts get through:

1. Fixed the email issue so I'll get notifications again when posts need review.

2. I added your IP address to the "trusted" list, so it should now always accept your posts with no review needed.

3. I loosened some of the restrictions that flag a post as possible spam. For example, I realized your post might have been flagged as spam if it contained the word "gallery", because that is a word that appears often in spam posts (you can just imagine). But since your post was about photos, it might have contained a legitimate use of the word "gallery", so I lowered the severity level of that word.
Most of the other words in the "spam word" list are not appropriate to mention here (again, you can just imagine).

4. I added some extra diagnostics so that I can better see why posts are getting flagged for review, just in case yours does not get through again.

Thank you for participating in the C&O Forum, and again I'm sorry about all the trouble.

Bill in Houston, go ahead try one more time to post that link for the photos. Looks like Ray got it sorted.

John

Just tried again. Thanks, Ray!

Bill thanks for coming back to share your photos!

They are in a separate thread just below this one. In case these two threads get separated over time, here is a link to view the post with photo links:
https://bikecando.com/talk.aspx?tid=10674&mode=disp

Perfect!

We rode the full length of the GAP in October. Enjoy some pics from the trip!


https://www.facebook.com/bill.rodgersjr/posts/10158853898948554


https://www.facebook.com/bill.rodgersjr/posts/10158856413213554


https://www.facebook.com/bill.rodgersjr/posts/10158858856438554


https://www.facebook.com/bill.rodgersjr/posts/10158861294338554


https://www.facebook.com/bill.rodgersjr/posts/10158863745163554


https://www.facebook.com/bill.rodgersjr/posts/10158866350713554


https://www.facebook.com/bill.rodgersjr/posts/10158869089818554


https://www.facebook.com/bill.rodgersjr/posts/10158853956263554

Just gave a Trek Verve3 a test ride on the canal to see how it handles without front shocks on some of the embedded rocky surfaces near me and found that its a pretty rough ride without front shocks, so just wondering if you have found that front shocks are a must have for most of the canal surfaces as the catch22 is, I don't think I can use a front baggage rack with a front shock suspension.

I do not think a front suspension fork is necessary to traverse the C&O.

I've traveled the length of the C&0 5 times in the last five years with the same no suspension bike (1996 Mongoose hybrid).

If anything- it's getting easier because the park service has been resurfacing sections with a crushed limestone surface similar to the GAP trail.

Go for it! Happy traveling!

Thanks Willy great to the hear that!

Like Willy from Alexandria, I have made the GAP/C&O trip 6 times in the last six years on bikes without front suspension. Four of those trips were self-supported where the bikes were packed with tools, tent, sleeping bag, clothes, camp stove and small amounts of food. The bikes have been road bikes or modified versions thereof with wider tires and 36-hole rims. I typically use a handlebar bag on the front.

I’ve not felt the need for front suspension. However, maybe I don’t know what I am missing having not owned or used a bike with suspension.

I actually lock out my suspension forks when on the tow path. I think suspension is worth it for serious trail riding but is more annoying to me for things like the canal (bouncier ride).

Well on my previous ride to White's Ferry I was using my Gary Fisher, which does have a front suspension and I never noticed any rough riding anywhere along the path, but with the Verve, it was pretty rough going in that stretch from 495 to DC, so this weekend I'll try letting some air out of the tires and see if that helps, thanks again all for the very helpful info!

Hi BobK, just a thought to keep in mind. We used to ride the trail every year on some old steel framed road bikes and had no real problems even loaded down. About 10 years ago we switched to aluminum framed Novara Safaris (no shocks) and have been riding the trail every Fall on those. But if we’re on a day ride we usually take our suspension bikes since the aluminum framed Novara’s are pretty stiff unloaded. However, when we load them up for our thru trips (with camping gear and the works) they ride a lot smoother. You might want to try your Trek loaded with gear and see if it doesn’t make a difference in how it rides.

Actually I do plan on carrying 2(2 liter) bottles of water on the front rack when I do my Cumberland ride, so I'm going to carry those water bottles when I do another test run this weekend and also see how well the front rack holds up with all that bouncing around, thanks for the info GSK, all!

Did a test run on the canal with 2(3 liter) water bottles on the front rack and that definitely smoothed out the ride on those rocky surfaces by about 50%, so that’s a big relief! but definitely got spoiled by those Gary Fisher Rock Shocks so I may rebuild the GF just as a backup, thanks GSK, all!