C&O / GAP Forum

Hi everyone...I just read this on Reddit. It helps explain my observation Last week about the removal of handles from a bunch of pumps...Get your filters!!...

Important info for folks who ride the C & O
After a trip for the last few days on the towpath and finding the wells shut off again (although they were on last week), I bumped into a ranger who gave me some info that folks might want to know.

Apparently a few stretches of the wells came back with E. Coli so many need to be shut down. While the wells are technically supposed to be ground water at 100 feet, the Potomac is inevitably leeching in and contaminating the wells often. Understandable.

But the important info he gave me: Spring of 2021 the entire C and O well system is going to become non-potable water. So the pumps will be on, but any water coming out will have to be treated. The long and short is that they used to treat with iodine, but due to that not being good for everyone, and a chlorine system is too expensive for the park service to absorb, the water next year will need to be treated before using. He said it will be on the NPS website when the time comes, and signs and info will be at each pump.

Unfortunate, but good to know.

Geez, I hope this doesn’t come to fruition. I love the drinking water availability along the C&O and will be sad to see it go away. Yes, we’ll still be able to rinse off or dunk our heads in the water but being able to drink it is what made it great. I just wonder if they let them go for a long period of time, could they ever revive them?

Oh well, we’ll just have to carry our own water or bring a filtration system.

Does anyone know the status of NPS not treating water along GAP trail?

The NPS cutting something out that affects .5% at high doses (source Canada Allergy Institute) of the population is not tolerable. Seems like another way they trim expenses.

I’m guessing we’ll know sometime in March or April when everyone’s first planning their trips and the NPS makes a decision to treat them or not. I know everyone here is hoping they continue it.

Someone on here made a good argument....can’t recall the exact details....but they said it’s actually cheaper for the Park Service to treat the wells with iodine as the these water sources are life savers for people who misjudge their water situation and might get caught between towns. Cheaper than getting billed for ambulance bills retrieving people in dire straits.

That said, if E. Coli becomes an issue, hopefully they’ll just mark the bad ones as non-potable and keep the iodine treated ones active. I can’t imagine all of them are being leeched by the Potomac. Hope not anyways!

John

2/6/21: can anyone tell me the surface conditions between point of rocks and shepherdstown?

Looks like a few more inches today. In general, snow and ice stay longer on the path because of a number of factors, esp the low sun angle and the light surface color. That is a wooded stretch and my guess is you’re looking at another week before it is snow ice free.

Long day to ride from Cumberland to Hancock, with having to "portage" around tunnel. Any info on condition of trail? Will be riding in 2nd 1/2 of May 2021. I realize conditions can change, but is the bypass trail new, or forest roads, etc??

I think “old goat path” is the best description.

The the Department of the Interior (DOI) and its National Park Service (NPS) have announced their new policy to implement one of the new presidential executive orders. According to reports:

“NPS will now require all visitors and employees to don masks inside buildings and facilities and on NPS-managed lands "when physical distancing cannot be maintained," according to the DOI. For example, a mask will be required when a trail is too narrow or is busy, on overlooks or in historic homes.”

If/how that will be implemented and enforced along the C&O Towpath is uncertain at this time.

This was my last stop for the night before Pittsburgh Excellent stopping spot for camping. They have a fully enclosed lobby/pavilion, kitchenette, bathroom and heated showers. The camping space is massive with grilling areas and seats to just view the river. The pavilion has a TV with cable to watch sports and other channels. Great setup that fully supports bikers on the GAP. Loved it here and would highly recommend!

Hi - planning a Spring trip and saw this. Very encouraging and makes me want to stay here.

Any other thoughts about the Campground? This was the only hit that came up when I searched the Forum about it.

This campsite is as described albeit the “pavilion” is not fully “enclosed” but is fully “covered”. I myself would not describe the camping space as “massive” particularly compared to others along the GAP Trail such as Husky Haven. That said, it is a nice camping site about 35 miles from downtown Pittsburgh. There are a number of places to eat within walking distance along with a good bike shop there also.

If all the amenities noted are important to you, I would recommend you call ahead of time to insure they all will be available in the early spring touring season

You can find more info about that campground at:

www.gaptrailcampground.com

Thank you! Thoughts about the Outflow Campground in Comfluence?

It’s a nice, state-operated campground with a large RV clientele. It has a large shower house. It sits at the base of the Youghiogheny River dam (hence the name) and is a short ride into the small town of Confluence. There are a handful of eateries in/near town and a capable bike shop. All in all it’s a nice place to overnight albeit a little pricey for a tent site compared to others along the trail

Note that you have to make a prior reservation online via the state recreation website as opposed to simply walking in.

Wondering what is approx distance from Jordan Junction to the nearest food/grocery/restaurant?

About 2 miles.

3 of us are planning to bike from Pittsburg to DC in May and ride Amtrak back. If the Capitol Limited still has the 2-bike limit, does anyone know if boxing the 3rd bike as baggage is an option? Renting a car sounds tempting but with 3 bicycles not sure.

I’ve not heard of a 3 bike limit.....I think there’s up to 6 or 8 slots. Can anyone else confirm?
Maybe they mean one person can’t book 3 at the same time in one swoop? Not sure.

Boxing of bikes is still an option though.

Given the past changes to the Capital Limited schedules and bike transport accommodations, you would be well advised to contact them directly regarding your questions. Even then, as history this past fall demonstrated, you should continue to check back with them periodically, and certainly before departing, to confirm that information.

There seems to have been a lot of confusion with travelers who had made reservations for service this past fall.

Also, on an unrelated subject, please note the work on and the detour required around the Paw Paw Tunnel if you are not already aware of it.

Our experience indicates that a one-way rental car will likely be cheaper than three train tickets.

My wife and I planned to take Amtrak, but then they cancelled bike service on us at the last minute. We got a car for just a few dollars more, and made some nice stops along the way.

My wife and I had similiar experience on west coast this past Thanksgiving. In our case Coast Starlight was showing all the bike spaces taken. I checked several different random dates with same results. I suspect they just didn't want to deal with putting bikes in the baggage car which is what they do (no box needed). I would have loved to used Amtrack but instead we ended up renting a pickup to return from Monterey CA to Palo Alto CA. Was actually cost competitive. For 3 people, rent a PU - plenty of room for you and the bikes.

Thanks for all the input. I talked to an Amtrak agent who could not find any info, except that every reservation date had a limit of 2. She did confirm we could box the 3rd as baggage. We will keep checking back but may rent a car, (not sure what a PU is?). Thanks also for the heads up about the Paw Paw tunnel.

Thanks for all the input. I talked to an Amtrak agent who could not find any info, except that every reservation date had a limit of 2. She did confirm we could box the 3rd as baggage. We will keep checking back but may rent a car, (not sure what a PU is?). Thanks also for the heads up about the Paw Paw tunnel.

When I read Karl’s post, I interpreted “PU” to stand for “pick up” as in pickup truck. Perhaps Karl can confirm.

You should think about renting a car for a one way drop off. Enterprise charges a flat drop off fee. It’s an 8 hour train trip from DC to Pitt and maybe a 3 hour car ride. Im going through the same calculations myself and it’s just much more appealing to sick my bike in a rental car and show up a few hours later.

Not sure exactly what Amtrak is doing/ not doing. I wanted to make 6 person/ bike reservations fir a certain date. The train from Cumberland only runs every other day and there were only to bike slots. Whether they'd already been sold or their limiting slots I have no way of knowing. Apart from the pandemic causing problems Amtrak doesn't really have the best "track" record regarding customer service. Roll only bike service is money maker and for the most part bikers load their own bikes. The service at Union Station DC was excellent but the service at Cumberland was lousy. There were 4-5 of us waiting to board. We were told to stand at a certain spot with our bikes. When the train stopped we weren't at the proper car. The baggage guy started barking at us and continued to cause confusion while we all tried to follow his instructions. I finally made a comment and he kinda made it clear he didn't care for us, our bikes, nor the extra money we generated. They need to make the cars more user friendly, have space for more bikes, and lastly shiw some gratitude to the public.

We always do a one-way minivan rental from Enterprise for our bike trips (twice to Cumberland, once to Pittsburgh, and once back from Cleveland after biking the OTET). It's usually just two of us and our bikes, but one time we had a third person and bike. I think we've paid in the $140 to $180 range for the rental. For two people, I think the one-way rental costs a bit more than Amtrak, but the convenience and flexibility of being able to travel on our schedule is definitely worth it to us.

I certainly don't understand how Amtrak manages their business or the economics of it. Further, I don't know what their issues are in transporting bikes.

I must say that the roll on service, particularly in Washington and Pittsburgh, is convenient and easy...plus you get to board early, at least in Washington. All of my experiences at those stations have been positive.

Even before the pandemic and the reduction in scheduled trips, finding and getting a bike reservation to go along with a passenger reservation was difficult especially when returning from Washington. Bike reservations were often unavailable either because of high demand or limited availability. (Not sure which.) Further, it is difficult to find the next available bike reservation as you have to just keep entering successive departure dates in the on-line system until an available reservation appears. I've resorted to calling a real-life reservationist to find when bike reservations would next be available beyond my preferred date and even they seemed to have difficulty within their system.

The schedule to and from Pittsburgh is not ideal as the train arrives/departs Pittsburgh between midnight and 1:00am as an intermediate point in its Chicago/Washington trip.

All that said, as I am usually a solo rider the cost is less than renting a vehicle. Even though it takes twice as long, I don't mind the train since I don't have to drive and can rest, read or sleep on the train.

A better dialog between Amtrak and the riding community would be useful in making for both better service and relations...and hopefully more business for Amtrak.

I so badly want to get with and support Amtrak but they really to make it hard to love with all of the bike reservation issues. When “Roll On Roll Off” works, it’s an excellent, low cost service that I really enjoy. But lately it’s been nothing but confusion for customers.

What makes it even more frustrating is the fact that there’s no way those bike reservations are “sold out”. I mean they might only allow 6 purchased bike reservations but have you ever seen the cars your bikes go in? They could easily fit in 15-20 just in that little part of the car alone. We just laid ours down on the floor last time....no slots, no hangers, nothing. Don’t see why they can’t increase the amount they accept.

On my last attempt at the GAP/C&O I actually managed to secure a bike reservation from Pittsburgh to DC only for them to cancel it on me two weeks out. So I ended up renting a van and riding to National Airport in DC. Like Rivnuts said, I too like to rest and not drive but I’m beginning to lose faith with this set up and have resigned myself to knowing I’ll likely just have to rent a van to make this bike tour happen.

Amtrak should check out Toronto’s GO Train set up for ideas on how this should work. I once took the Toronto to Niagara Falls train with roll on roll off service. Quick, speedy, cheap, friendly service with tons of slots and space for bikes. I really don’t know why this is so hard for Amtrak.

Ray, you gotta make a site for this one!
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/new-yorks-750-mile-empire-state-trail-completed?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2gIUPnK4wzc8E_g6GbY0tK5G73wm5q9XxB-G1p1S4zitUCq5p1DRvYhIs

He has the basic east-west portion, i.e. the Erie Canal Trail, on his site at:

https://bikeeriecanal.com/

Rivnuts, thanks for helping me along. Reading still continues to be a struggle for me, apparently. :)

True! Sorry for being a grump.

the bigger question is why are all of these "rail-trail" sites not linked on a single page?

I value this forum for updates & support. I often wonder if I could cross country ski anywhere on the canal. While it may seem unrelated, this SkiWise mobile app has potential for sharing mutli-use trail conditions. So far it's only populated with cross country ski trails. Maybe if the developer sees more demand it could be expanded. https://www.facebook.com/SkiwiseApp.

Went to look at the temporary crossing for culvert 82 between lander Lock 29 and Brunswick. With the high water the temporary crossing is completely washed out. One section was pitched up on the bank toward lock 29 the other two sections were washed out into the river. That was at 10:30 Am on Christmas day. The water was still rising and the condition of the foundations is unknown due to them being underwater. I will check again during the weekend.

It was bound to happen sooner or later. I guess I'm heading north today. :) Thanks!

Hopefully now that they know where to put the temporary crossing (and what materials are required), they can rebuild it in the early spring before riders start coming through.

Does anyone know if the C&O has concrete plans to build a permanent bridge?

John

This is the trail that hasn't figured out that gravel is a nicer surface than mud, so I wouldn't expect too much.

Perhaps, but NPS does deserve some love for the resurfacing they’ve done from Shepherdstown to Edward’s Ferry :-)

Below is a notice posted on the GAP website summarizing the NPS's announcement of the closure of the Paw Paw Tunnel until mid-2022. Note the 8.7 to 11% uphill grades for the detour depending on which direction you are travelling as well as the additional time to traverse the bypass.

NOV 25 2020 | C&O Canal Towpath's Paw Paw Tunnel to Close; Detour Posted

On November 25, the National Park Service announced an immediate closure of the northern entrance of the Paw Paw Tunnel to protect travelers on the C&O Canal Towpath from falling rocks near the tunnel's northern approach. The NPS anticipates this closure will last until mid-2022.

According to the NPS, "during construction, visitors can walk into the Paw Paw Tunnel when approaching from the south but will not be able to continue past the north end of the tunnel. The south entrance is where day-use visitors access the tunnel already, and it is the closest entrance to the Paw Paw Tunnel campground and parking area. The campground and parking area will also remain open to through travelers on the towpath."

Cyclists may walk their bikes up and over the Paw Paw Tunnel using the Tunnel Bypass Trail, which features beautiful views of the Potomac River and Paw Paw, W. Va. The Tunnel Bypass Trail is approximately a mile and a half long with an elevation change of 375 feet. From the south (closer to the Paw Paw Tunnel parking lot), the Tunnel Bypass Trail begins by crossing the canal and climbs 0.63 miles to the top (or about one foot of rise per nine feet of distance). On the downstream (construction) end, the bypass begins where the Tunnel Hill Trail meets the towpath near mile marker 155 and climbs 0.82 miles to the top (one foot of rise per 11.5 feet of distance). This detour is open and available for runners and hikers, as well.

The NPS announcement itself can be found at:

https://www.nps.gov/choh/planyourvisit/pawpaw-closure.htm

Falling rocks....yikes!

Glad it’s a simple detour.

Thanks for sharing this!

John

I can't decide whether the "Tunnel Bypass Detour" is better or worse than the earlier detour required when the repair of the tunnel itself was being performed. That detour was long, steep, rock and root ridden and dangerous when wet. It was virtually unrideable except for a mountain biker not laden with bags. It required a good hour or more to traverse making a day trip from Cumberland to Hancock rather onerous for the recreational rider.

I guess I'll find out what this trail detour entails sometime next year.

That detour trail sounds pretty spicy. 9-11% is challenging, but if it's rocky or rooty or has steps, then you're beyond most people's ability to push even a lightly loaded bike. And going back downhill to the Canal trail might be an even bigger challenge.

Thanks for the updates!

The Tunnel Bypass trail is a terrible option. I have claustrophobia and seriously considered taking the trail (pre trip) instead of going through the Paw Paw itself. I arrived to rain and took one look at the trail and went right into the tunnel. A fully loaded bike on that trail is not an option. I would seriously look for an on road detour.

Looks like the river crossing ferry that connects the C&O Canal to Leesburg, VA is going to close because of a legal dispute. Local officials are tying to work something out because it's a vital transportation connection point.

This will be bad for cyclists as there would be no way to get to lodging or food options in Leesburg as well as no way to connect to the W&OD trail as some like to do.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/virginia/whites-ferry-closes-after-legal-dispute-loudoun-county-virginia-maryland/65-b2e30509-ec68-48c1-842d-693126824a87

It would appear like an attempt by the private plaintiff party to extort payment from the ferry operator. Given the importance and history of the ferry and it likely profitability, I expect this will ultimately be resolved.

How did you come across this info so quickly?

Ok, well, that explains the ferry detour signs I saw while driving down 15 today.

Rivnuts - Pure luck. I was reading an unrelated forum and this news story popped up. I just stumbled on it. 8 - ) Then when I later googled “White’s Ferry”, every DC news outlet seemed to have an article on it.

One other thing, it’s the only crossing over the Potomac for miles, I also expect it to be resolved and everything back to normal. But if it drags through the courts who knows how long it will take.

The Washington Post has a more detailed article on the conflict between the ferry operator and the property owner: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/whites-ferry-closed/2020/12/28/80ddac0e-4938-11eb-9025-57b4c8818a4a_story.html.

Looks like there are several new issues and a few that are not resolved from our last trip detailed here.

https://ttravel441155563.wordpress.com/

and that is not our bikes on that main page :) We plan to blog our next adventure too.

-JKT

https://theradavist.com/2020/12/touring-not-tourist-pittsburgh-to-dc-along-the-great-allegheny-passage/

The photos are quite good. Each subtly identifies the location where taken without any annotation.

Thanks for that link.

Today is Monday, December 7, 2020 and I just got off the phone and thought I would share this important information: “ PER PHONE CALL FROM LESLIE, WEST NEWTON TRAIL COUNCIL: "Dravo Cemetery is closed. The area will be used by the contract workers. No one is to canoe in, walk in or bike in to Dravo Cemetery area. Furthermore, The section of the trail which is closed also includes all the adjacent trail properties. Privately owned Henderson Road which leads down to Dravo is off-limits. However, the contract workers will be using Henderson Road." RE: 724 872 5586 Leslie” furthermore, you may access the trail at Buena Vista and bicycle or walk south towards West Newton etc.… But NOT North!.

Thanks for this info regarding Dravo Campground. Hope the construction contractor(s) don’t degrade the campground site. It has been carefully maintained and manicured over the years making it a favorite rest and camping location along the trail.