C&O / GAP Forum

We are planning a Bicycle ride from west newton pa to DC.
Most of our trip is planned the only place I didn’t make hotel reservations is Leesburg VA. Seems the nearest hotel is in downtown Leesburg the distance from the whites ferry To the hotel is about 4.5 mile. Is there a bike trail or bike path for this section. or the only way is to ride on route 15 which it looks like a highway.
Looking forward to advice
Thank you,
Avi

There is no bike trail from the Whites Ferry Landing to Leesburg. See the responses to a similar question asked under the previous forum discussion topic whose subject was "Whites Ferry to Leesburg" posted on July 20.

The only way to bike from White's Ferry to Leesburg is unfortunately Highway 15. You are only on 15 for about a mile. It has a wide shoulder. I used to ride it all the time. The downside is that traffic is going 60 mph, so if a car veers off, doesn't see you, or wants to be vicious, you're toast. You might try riding against the traffic. At least that way, you will see the car before it hits you. But the northbound lane, leaving Leesburg in the morning, is trickier. Probably best to ride in on the southbound lane with traffic behind you and ride back the next morning on the same lane facing the traffic. You might also think about seeing if an Uber or Lyft can get your bike in the trunk. I want to stress that the road is plenty wide, but you have very high speed traffic. Some drivers seem to think the should can be used to pass slow cars on the right side. Take a look on Google Street View and see if you would feel comfortable riding the shoulder.

I know the previous comments are well-intended, but it's never safe (or legal) to ride a bike against the flow of traffic. Ride with the flow of traffic and use a mirror to see what's happening behind you.

I wasn't lightly advising to ride against traffic by leaving town on the southbound lane. A stranger will have trouble finding the safest route to the northbound lane. Instead, they will take what appears to be the shortest route out of town, and they will require them to cross four lanes of 60 mph traffic. That can be exciting but not the way you want to start your day. And the "safe" route still requires you to ride about 200 yards across a grass field and then another 100 yards on a section of Route 15 that doesn't have a shoulder, where you are on the road with 60 mph traffic. So I thought I would simplify things and suggest people leave Leesburg on the same Southbound lane they rode in on. You're riding against traffic but it's safer than taking the northbound lane. I don't know that it is illegal in Virginia to ride against traffic but it may be illegal to ride a bike on a divided highway anyway.

Richard, as I said previously, I know that your comments are well intended. But, just to be clear, it's illegal in every state to bicycle against traffic. The League of American Bicyclists summarizes the laws this way: "In all 50 states, people on bikes are required to follow the same laws as other drivers.

Here are a few key principles that underpin all US traffic laws: ....

Ride on the Right
In the United States, everyone must drive on the right-hand side of the roadway."

In Virginia, the relevant statutes are Va. Code Ann. §§46.2-100 and 46.2-800.

There is a Best Western in Leesburg. They will pick you up at the Whites Ferry crossing. It’s a good service. I used in June. You can hose off your bike and the hotel will store it inside. The hotel is clean

Last year I did the same with the Hotel in Downtown Leesburg. I forget the name of it. I don’t recommend that one. The shuttle is a small pickup. My bike was damaged and they would not pick us up at the ferry. We had to instead bike out to the highway and waited 45 mins

The B W was great!

I rode from Cumberland to Brunswick. I found a grocery store in Brunswick about 2.5 miles uphill on acceptable roads from the towpath. That is about my "limit" on what I consider as convenient to bike to from the towpath. I then continued on the towpath to Point of Rocks. There was a small convenience store there and a banana was a dollar. I got scared about this and returned to Cumberland. I saw your post about Leesburg. Is there a grocery store (not convenience store) that is convenient to the towpath? About how far from the towpath? If there is no convenient grocery, what is the next town towards DC that has a grocery store that is convenient to bike to? I need to get to a grocery store every day to buy certain things. Also, is mile 15 the last free campground? I won't ride more than a few miles past the last free campground, where ever that is. Thank for any info.

To Jim Days. Brunswick is the biggest town on the Maryland side of the river, so that was you best bet. There is nothing close to the towpath between Point of Rocks and Georgetown except the "store" at White's Ferry. The Montgomery County section of that is the Agricultural Preserve where stores are unwelcome. I've never been inside the store at White's Ferry, but I think it is mainly soft drinks, maybe beer, and sandwiches. People who are waiting for the ferry get out of their cars and pop in for something to snack on. It doesn't sound like that's what you are looking for. Same thing with Harpers Ferry. Old Harpers Ferry, which is the part on river level, caters to tourists with restaurants and shops. You have to climb up Bolivar Heights to find anything like a store. The shopping areas of Leesburg are much farther from the towpath than what you found in Brunswick.

OK, according to what you said, there is no easy to get to grocery after Brunswick. Can you tell me what is the last free campground? Is it at mile 15? If there is a free campground at mile 15, I could stock up on groceries in Brunswick and then ride to mile 15,camp for the night, turn around and stock up again in Brunswick on the way back to Cumberland. For info for anyone else, I found good nearby grocery stores in Cumberland (Savealot, Martins), Hancock (Savealot), Shepherdstown (Food Lion), Brunswick (Weis).

Stayed in Leesburg once and they provided a shuttle from near the ferry landing.

Hi is detour still in effect for PAW PAW tunnel? What is effect of detour on travel time and difficulty of trip to Little Orleans?

As noted by John W under a different forum topic the Paw Paw Tunnel is open.

Has anyone eaten at Amanda's Place in Paw Paw and how difficult is it to bike to.

I haven’t stayed there since it has become Amanda’s Place but it is not difficult to ride to. You simply leave the trail on a paved path and ride to the bridge over the river and then ride along the road shoulder on into Paw Paw. Its perhaps a mile and slightly uphill.

Amanda’s is a wonderful place to eat at!

EASY trip off the trail to bike to just as Rivnuts said. Talked to the owner, Amanda, for a quite a bit. Great restaurant owner, super friendly, and outstanding food. An oasis in Paw Paw. Highly recommend.

John

Gotta agree, it's a bit of an unexpected surprise. Easy to reach, salads were fresh, food was good. My only regret was not taking her advice and getting a ride around the PawPaw tunnel detour.

Hi what is Paw paw tunnel detour and how does it impact trail??

The detour was an horrendous narrow path uphill slog that added about 90 minutes to our trip on a 95 degree full pack trip. But, that was 2 years ago and I believe the tunnel is open again
.

Tunnel is open. I just went through it at the end of June.

Does anyone know its hours?

No, but here's their number. Give them a call to get that info first hand.


1 Henry W Miller Hwy

304-947-5988

hat trail is the better ride, forum talks of large tree roots on rail trial.

When I went three years ago, I thought it was bad in a few spots. But when I went this past June, I only noticed a handful of them. I was trying to be mindful of what mile markers they occurred between but I gave up as there hardly any bad segments, just some random bumps. I would say the WMRT is the better ride.

Is Liberty store still open?

It was last fall when I last stopped there.

Yes, still open. I was there just this past June.

John

Hello,

Curious about Amtrak and bikes , I purchased a ticket for the 10th of August one way to Pittsburgh and paid for the $20 bike upgrade as well. I've seen some chatter here about Amtrak not honoring the bike upgrade? Would I potentially be forced to box up the bike at union station? Would really like to avoid that. Anyone on this page done the trip recently? I've tried calling Amtrak and asking but they weren't very helpful.

Thanks,

Matthew

From what others have posted in this forum, they’re honoring your bike ticket but the bike storage cars are not being used during Covid so they just lay them down in some storage area or something like that. You should be good. No one has had issues from what I’ve read.

Scroll through a few pages of this forum, a few others have had the same question.

John

I'm am from Texas and planning a thru ride in late August and wanted to inquire if anyone has suggestions for the following:

The best way to get from Pittsburgh international to the Trailhead in downtown Pittsburgh?

I've read about the Montour trail being a possible option, but can't figure out if it would work.

Similar question would be the best way to get from the trails (end in my case) in DC to Reagan National?


I might be one of the only persons left who has never used Uber, but would they transport a person and bike?

Thank you,

Reagan National Airport is easily accessible by bike from the C&O Towpath (or from the parallel Capital Crescent Trail) if you cross the Key Bridge to Arlington, VA (the Key Br. will be the first bridge crossing the Potomac as you enter the DC area). Just across the Key Br., turn left on the Mount Vernon Trail and follow it to the airport. There is a well-marked paved connection from the Mount Vernon Trail directly into the airport. (I don't have experience with the Montour Trail, so can't help with that.)

Consider the bus to downtown Pittsburgh from the airport....

https://www.portauthority.org/pdfs/28X.pdf

As noted in the earlier response, there is a Port Authority bus that runs from the airport to downtown Pittsburgh. All Port Authority buses have two bicycle racks on the front of the bus. A face mask is required to ride the buses.

If you are not committed to starting the GAP trail at its origin at Point State Park in Pittsburgh, you can ride from the airport to McKeesport via the Montour Trail and its extension to the airport and pick up the GAP trail there in McKeesport. That is about a 50 mile ride. Doing so bypasses the first 18 miles of the GAP from downtown to McKeesport.

You can, and I've done it, ride from the airport to downtown via the Montour Trail and its extension and the Three Rivers Heritage Trail. While the latter is a "trail" it is not well marked or easily followed by those not from the area. Further, nearly all of it is on busy roads albeit you can ride on a sidewalk adjacent to portions of those roads. Frankly, I wouldn't recommend this to those not familiar with the region but, if you are adventurous and not grossly risk averse, you can do it. I can provide additional details if you are interested in this route.

Thank you for the information. The McKeesport via the Montour Trail sounds an interesting opion to connect to the GAP trail.

This will likely be my first and last ride on the GAP,C&O so would I miss a great deal by not starting at Point State Park?

Obviously you would miss downtown Pittsburgh. The origin of the GAP at Point State Park ("The Point") where the Monongahela and Allegheny Rivers join the form the Ohio River and the fountain there is rather unique. From there you can look across the river and see Heinz Field and PNC Park the homes of the Pgh Steelers and Pirates as well as other downtown features. The skyline of downtown Pittsburgh is very visible from there. As you leave downtown Pgh, there is much history of the old steel industry along the Monongahela River most of which has been demolished with shopping centers and industrial/commercial arks built on those mill sites. The ride from Pittsburgh to McKeesport is all paved but free from car traffic. Aside from the Point and downtown and the history along the way, that distance is rather bland albeit an easy ride. On the other hand, once you reach the Montour Trail itself from the airport, the majority of the Montour Trail is more remote and less traveled by bikers with a crushed limestone surface and passes through woods and residential areas. The Montour Trail Extension from the airport to the Montour Trail itself and the Steel Valley Trail at the other end of the Montour that links you to the GAP Trail in McKeesport are on roads with a modicum of traffic. For your first and only ride of the GAP/C&O, you'd probably want to start at the Point to "experience" the entire formal trail.

If you need/want additional local info or assistance in navigating these trails, feel free to contact me at:

Rivnuts@yahoo.com

1. The body is way more capable that we think it is. I haven't ridden 350 miles in six days since I was in my 20's, I'm in my 50's now. There were moments when I though I had dumped all I could into my ride... there was always another 10 or 15 miles still in my legs.

2. You don't need all the stuff you think you're going to need. I could have lightened my load and made due with less.

3. Stop and take in the views. I stopped often just to admire the beauty of the land. In hind site I should have stopped more. There were a number of moments were I saw something in the forest and said "wow." Now that those moments are just memories I wish I had taken a moment to pause, take a photo, and just breathe in the beauty.

4. Stars are amazing. Living in a large city I don't get to see the night sky in all its splendor. If you're camping on your journey, take a moment at night to look up.

Another suggestion for this trip would be:

5. Take a few minutes before and during the trip to learn and appreciate the history of each of the trails and imagine what they were like and how people lived in their eras.

From the GAP webpage:

"Re-surfacing of the 11 mile section of the Great Allegheny Passage between Ohiopyle and Confluence will begin on Monday 7/13, with an anticipated end date of 7/24. Although the contractors plan to keep the trail open it would helpful, if at all possible, to please bike elsewhere during the next week or so. Thank You!"

WHat are they resurfacing the GAP with? Is it ashfault or similar or crushed granite/ clay?

Is there a place to look to see what the trail surface is from Pitts to Cumberland? It seems Cumberland is Clay/crushed Granite but correct me if I am wrong. Trying to figure the right type of bike to bring from Houston.

It’s still crushed limestone, it’s just a resurfacing which I think they do every decade in sections or where erosion requires it.

90% of the GAP is crushed limestone except where it’s paved out of downtown Pittsburgh for the first 10-12 miles, a little bit through Connellsville, and the last bits before Cumberland.

Virtually any bike will make the trip successfully albeit a road bike with 19mm or 23mm tires might be less than desirable if you encounter significant rain. (There can be some occasional soft spots and puddles under those circumstances). Road bikes with 28mm tires or larger, hybrid bikes, gravel bikes, recumbent bikes and mountain bikes generally would be fine. I don't see many tandems on the trail but they should be ok as well as long as there isn't a sustained deluge during your journey.

Take the bike you are most comfortable on and can carry whatever load you'll be taking and you should have an enjoyable trip.

John from Pitts, and Rivnuts - Thanks for the prompt feedback. It is SO MUCH appreciated. Really, ... THanks.

A clarifications
GAP TRAIL
1. Between the two messages I gather the surface and that it is relatively smooth and PACKED, meaning not loose gravel, to Cumberland? Tire size suggestions were excellent, by the way. A fellow traveler does not have experience on unpacked trail and it would be difficult to get that experience before hand. It would not prevent the trip just mean possibly a different set of equipment and allocation of time. So the clarification needed is whether it is packed.

C&O trail
1. I am wondering if the same tire sizes are recommended for C&o trail. I get the idea that the C&O is much less smooth and packed.

Again, thank you so much for your time.

I haven't ridden the entire GAP, but the sections that I have ridden are crushed limestone. That gets a little mushy in the rain, but it is not like mud. Even a thin road bike tire might work, but I'd recommend something a bit wider. The C&O Canal towpath presents a very different surface. In the worst areas, it is two thin lanes of dirt with a grass median. This is the result of years and years of bikers riding over a dirt surface in opposite directions. If this gets wet, mountain bike tires would be best. I ride it on a mountain bike with big fat tires and only get into trouble when it's really muddy and the mud gets stuck in the fork. There is a nice bypass around Hancock, Maryland that is asphalt and a wise choice. Yesterday, I rode from Mouth of Monocacy to Harpers Ferry on the towpath. It's been resurfaced with crushed limestone and quite firm. I don't know how far up in goes, however. It does go down to White's Ferry. From there to Violette's Lock, the towpath is the two-lane dirt affair. It has never been completely dry any time that I've been on it. There is a base of sand so that my mountain bike with fat tires has always been able to push through the many mud holes, but thin tires would not. From Violette's Lock to Georgetown, it's a macadam surface composed of rocks and sand and dirt. This generally is dry even after rains. However, the rocks are rather large in places. The bike shops in DC advise against road bike tires because they can get punctured. In any event, the rocks will shake you to death on road bike tires.

The GAP Trail has virtually no loose gravel sections. When dry, the surface is "packed" i.e. your bike tires will not penetrate the surface. With lots of rain it becomes soft in some spots and you'd be able to see your bike tire tracks in the surface albeit not like riding a muddy, earthen trail.

Tire width on the C&O is a function of whether the trail is dry or muddy. I've ridden a road bike with 28mm and 32mm tires in both conditions but wider is better, even in dry conditions. I have purchased 35mm knobby tires for the trip this year in case it is wet. Even wider tires requiring less pressure might even be more comfortable.

Yesterday, I finished a solo, self-supported, N-to-S, camping through-bike from Pittsburgh to DC (7/17/20-7/21/20). The trail conditions were excellent with no rain (dusty), but it was very hot and electrolyte powders/tablets are essential this time of year. The GAP surface is very good, and I saw no evidence of resurfacing work currently occurring along the GAP. The C&O was in relatively good shape and generally dry. The new surface on the C&O (similar to the GAP crushed limestone surface) now extends from the Shepherdstown turnoff (approx. mile 74) to around Edwards Ferry (approx. mile 31), and the new surface is exceptionally nice. As others have said, take the paved Western Maryland Rail Trail (WMRT) from around Little Orleans to around Licking Creek Aqueduct for some relief from the old C&O surface. I averaged 74 miles per day on an adventure/gravel bike (no shocks) with 40 mm tires and about 30 lbs of food/camping gear. I stopped at one supermarket along the way in Cumberland and prepared all of my own meals, so generally had more food in my panniers than might be needed but for Covid-19 precautions. I would not recommend camping at Ohiopyle State Park due to partying and noise from other campers (well past midnight) and no attempt by the park to curtail the noise during "quiet hours" (9pm-8am), but I would recommend the NPS camp sites at Antietam (did not camp) and McCoy's Ferry (camped) on the C&O. Most (but not all) pump handles were installed at hiker-biker sites, and water was usually plentiful maintaining two bottles on the bike. It was a great adventure but, in July heat, not for the faint of heart!

Rivnuts and Richard thank you for the additional data - it is very helpful.

Last question: The bypass around Hancock going from Cumberland to DC. Where do you suggest rejoining the C&O?

The only place I found to cross over towards the end, and that is if I have correctly identified the "bypass" trail" is at Ernstville road UNLESS there is some other strategy like going down Big Pool road for a bit then ... Here is a link to the location that I think is for maximizing the bypass.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Big+Pool,+MD+21711/@39.6327779,-78.0301322,327m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca1930cc5ecc47:0x6fca929deeff8d45!8m2!3d39.6327724!4d-78.0290601!5m1!1e3

Texastree, you have identified the crossover correctly. When you are riding N-to-S along the Western Maryland Rail Trail, you will see a sign directing you to turn right on Ernstville Rd. in order to reconnect with the C&O Towpath. Take that right and go a short distance. At the point where the road turns hard left, leave the pavement and go straight into the woods. That trail isn't marked, but it will take you to the C&O. It is the trail that you've correctly identified on your map. (I was there just a few days ago.)

JM is quite right in his description. As noted it is not well marked as I found on my first trip a few years ago so keep your eyes open or you will ride right past it.

Thanks for your responses including the trip update from JM from Central Florida - this has been very helpful.

Just to share. I wrote the NPS about trail upgrades and where they happened/happening. They pointed me to this link which includes a before and after construction photo. The posts above correlate with their web page.


https://www.nps.gov/choh/planyourvisit/towpath-resurfacing-project.htm

The base layer of the new towpath surface is crush and run gravel, also known as CR-6. The top layer is stone dust, also known as AASHTO-10. The crush and run layer creates an adequate drainage system, so that heavy rainfall can easily drain off the towpath. The stone dust layer at the top adds a nice, smooth surface.

The National Park Service's photos and description are a bit rosier than what you may experience on the towpath. The new surface is indeed good and firm but that top layer of "stone dust" gets kicked up when it's dry. On last weekend's ride, the dust hung over the towpath like mist in the morning and left me with shin guards of gray dust from ankle to knee. I suppose my lungs will recover and the dust does wash off. The photo of what the towpath looked like before it was resurfaced was taken at White's Ferry in a well-drained location. In shady areas, which include the path from White's Ferry to Violette's Lock, the towpath almost never dries. There are always mud holes. And during or immediately after a rain, sections of it are virtually impassable. I don't mean to criticize the Canal Trust, which paid for the work, but be prepared for some tough, slow biking on the old surface if it's rained.

We're staying in Leesburg one night and looking for tips to get there from White's Ferry. Our hotel (Colonial) used to provide shuttle service but suspended it due to pandemic. 4 riders

Not being local to that area, I can’t offer any alternatives for transport from Whites Ferry to Leesburg. However, I have ridden it on my loaded bike 3 or 4 times. Hwy 15 is busy but there is a shoulder for much of its distance and there is a sidewalk for the balance to the hotel if roads aren’t your thing. If you can avoid rush hour traffic, it would be easier on your nerves.

I called a couple of hotels in Leesburg today looking for one that offers a shuttle from Whites Ferry. Comfort Suites currently offers a Ride & Stay deal for $129/ night. One other place suggested requesting a van from UBER. Maybe that would work, maybe not. We will be going with the Comfort Suites.

I'm looking for reasonably-priced options for a return trip (DC to Pittsburgh) for 3 bikers and their bikes now that Amtrak is not hauling bikes. Any advice?

I had the same challenge last week. I rented a mid-sized SUV from Hertz at Reagan National and dropped it off at Hertz, 1318 Fifth Ave., Pittsburgh, which is a mile and a half from Point State Park. Cost with taxes was $121. My rental was a Toyota Highlander, which is perfect for 1-2 bikes/bikers, but might be tight for 3. When I made my reservation, Hertz had larger minivans for one-way rental at the same price. National Airport is easily accessible by bike if you cross the Key Bridge to Virginia and follow the Mount Vernon trail. There is a paved connection from the trail to the airport. When you get into the airport proper, follow signs directing you to bicycle parking/racks, but just before the racks, turn right through the rental car maintenance area and ask the guys working there how to get to rental car pickup. I rode my bike directly to the rental car counter without the need to store my bike or take a bus. Easy to do if you ask directions. Have fun.

You can check your bike on Amtrak.. It’s an additional charge and you must remove the pedals and front wheel then fit it into a bike box. Amtrak has bike boxes for sale at Union Station for $15.

Cumberland to Georgetown ride notes for Friday, July 17:
First 60 miles muddy after heavy rains the night before. Likely has dried out now. Trees down at 10 and 20 miles from the start. Both could be climbed over, though lots of poison ivy on the second one. Nearly all the pump handles were in place the whole ride. The Desert Rose cafe in Williamsport is closed until August. Potomac Grill in Brunswick has shaded outdoor seating and friendly service.