C&O / GAP Forum

Good morning all,

What is the recommended trip time from The Point in Pittsburgh to Ronald Reagan International (Rental Car Return)?

I am trying to get a group of average 40-somethings together on the same page regarding 6days/5nights and 5days/4nights.

We've read several of the thru-trip reports and have agreed that 4 days/3 nights is not for us.

Unsupported, Inn-to-Inn, 4 riders, 1st week in October, Has-beens

We would like to have a nice breakfast and dinner each day.

5 nights will put you around the 65 miles a day. Definitely doable. But I would suggest maybe do six nights? Five nights I found myself getting into town later than I wanted and really pushing miles just to make town rather than enjoying the sights. If you are all 40-something's, yes I would do 6 nights, no less. Happy Journey!

I have done the ride 3 times, all of them 5 day rides with 4 nites lodging, meeting all the criteria you have outlined. first 2 day were 75 miles and the tow path in 3 more. I could give you day by day itinerairy if you like with the towns and hotels i stopped at.

Thank you guys/gals for your input. We settled on 5 days/4 nights due to work/life commitments. I pushed for 6/5 being the biggest (literally) has-been of the group. Time will tell who was right.

Our Itinerary is:

Point State Park to Connellsville - 61 miles
Connellsville to Frostburg - 76 miles
Frostburg to Hancock - 76 miles
Hancock to Harper's Ferry - 70 miles
Harper's Ferry to D.C. - 56 miles

2 of our quartet live in Md. so they will be renting a car one-way to us and then my wife and I will rent one-way in DC for the return.

Has anyone worked on/seen/considered mapping the entire trail into Google Earth?

Since they made the Pro version free we could do some really cool things like adding information real-time and collaboratively.

I am going to start working on one, but I don't want to "re-invent the wheel".

We are starting on Friday, May 1st and have rented a car to return to Pittsburg @ the Hertz @ the Key Bridge Marriot just across the bridge in Arlington at the end of the trail. Airports can be very busy area's and usually not very bike friendly. Best of luck

JohnS, if you turn on Roads in Google Earth under Primary Database and zoom into the map, you will see both the GAP and C&O. Not sure why it's categorized under roads but it's there. I've also seen mapping layers of both. Someone has either digitized it into a GIS or converted GPS coordinates they collected into a mapping layer.

Ric, were you able to get a bike rack from Hertz? SUV with dis-assembly? Looks like you'll have beautiful weather. You'll probably pass us as we will be rafting on the Yough on Saturday

John W. Kind of new to Google Earth. It looks like I could create a folder which we all could share with POI like bathrooms/campgrounds/water/trail hazards/detour routes, etc. Do you know if there is a way to highlight that route without retracing it entirely?

Renting a small SUV, we are travel in an HHR and just remove the front w wheels so I'm sure /anticipating we can get them there. Wish we had time to raft, maybe next time. Have a great time rafting. Ric

Plan to start my ride mid day Thursday with a goal to be done by Saturday. I will be riding with my pack as such try to drop weight thinking about ditching the water filter and a few other items. Any thoughts comments on the essentials? Decided to bring fuel and dehydrated meals.

Looks like it will be in the 30s in the am. Just bring some warmer stuff for that. Forecast doesnt look bad.

If you want to be done by Saturday that gives you 1/2 of Thursday and all day Friday to ride. What ride are you planning to do?

Has anyone used a rental car to get to Cumberland md. On a one way trip.

Enterprise is pretty good with one way rentals. They are in Cumberland.

I'm heading down from CT on the 23rd of April using Hertz and will be returning from DC the same way when I'm done.

Hello friends,
Just a quick heads up regarding the C&O. There has been vandalism of signs at Cushwa Basin (Williamsport, MD)
We can all help out here. If you witness any Vandalism, please have the courage to report it the Authorities. Get a detailed description of the culprits (use photos and videos) and report it. The Budget and money for trails is tight and now the Park Service will be spending money to fix problems caused by Vandals. This is money that could have been spent improving the trail and infrastructure. We can all help out here. If I witness it I will report it. Please help!

I am planning a Fall 2015 trip self contained from Pittsburgh to DC. I will stay over in Pittsburgh area, park , start at Point Park and travel to DC, rent car in DC, drive back to my car in Pittsburgh. My questions are; where would be a decent place to stay close to start of trail, where would be a good place to park for the week or so I will be gone? Any suggestions? Thanks,

im planning a trip from Pittsburgh to DC. Would you recommend an older steel framed road bike or a mtn bike? I understand a hybrid/touring is ideal but purchasing or renting a bike isn't in my budget. Thank you for your help!

would use the mt bike but put a less agressive tire on it, if it doesnt already have them.

okay, thank you for the quick response.

If your road bike will fit larger tires, at least 32 mm wide, and has mounts for fenders and racks, it should be fine. I rode the entire trail on a touring bike with 32 mm Panaracer Paselas and it was fine. Next time, however, I will put cross tires with some tread on my bike.

If I'm planning on completing the entire trail from DC to Maryland, would I need to pre plan/ reserve a lodge or camping ground to stay in, or do people usually play it be ear? and how much would it normally cost to complete the trail with the use off all the necessities (eat,sleep,drink,shower,etc.)

We usually have a support vehicle and camp. There are campgrounds every 5 miles with water, picnic table and porta-pot. Some are free - others cost $10 to put up a tent if they are road-accessible. If you stay in hotels, cost would be more. Meals extra, accessible at limited places - carry snacks with you.

Gracie, Last year my wife and I rode from Pittsburg to Dc. This was a credit card trip (no camping.) Due to the fact that it was mid Oct. and great weather we made all nightly reservations in advance. We ran into a snag about the 4th day when i had a tire rupture mid way between 2 major towns. Cost us part of a day getting a replacement tire. There was no way we could honor a reservation at a motel we'd reserved and cell service was spotty at best. We were able to contact and cancel the reservation but they didn't have to work with us as it was way less than 24 hours. I made a promise to myself at that time to always travel with at least a minimum of overnight gear. Tent, and sleeping gear.
So the answer is, if camping you probably don't need to reserve a space but if staying indoors I would likely reserve at least a few nights. Camping is a different matter the HBO's along the route (Hiker/Biker Overnights are free and have plenty of room. There is a fee for the group sites. As far as costs most B&B's are appx. $125, a motel might be anywhere from $65/$95, hostels around $25, etc. Meals would be about what you'd pay anywhere else, As low as $5/$10 and over $20 depending on the type of resturant. A nice option might be to switch between a campsite one night and a motel the next. There's something really great about a shower after a 40/60 miles ride! We generally do a 7 day ride for $600/$700 including a shuttle, meals, and indoor lodging. Nope this helps.

Hi Gracie. You did not mention when you plan on making your trip. If you are doing this during the summer, and you are planning on doing any B&Bs, I would absolutely make reservations. We book our entire through ride several months in advance. Some towns only have one or two places to stay, Paw Paw for example. Rick has some very good information in his post. Good luck!

A little word of warning about some of the Hiker/Biker campsites along the C&O towpath; some are very prone to pooling after a decent rainstorm (pooling in that there will be a pond of water about three to six inches deep). The most notorious sites are Cumberland Valley mp 95.2 and Turtle Run mp 34.4 but the best advice is to always seek the high ground when pitching your tent. There is also the issue of railroad noise especially from Harper’s Ferry to Dickerson, MD. There are two campsites I highly recommend that if you stay their that you use earplugs; they are Bald Eagle Island mp 49.9 and Calico Rocks mp 47.6 because the CSX mainline is less then 100 feet and it sounds like the train is coming right through your tent at night. Oh and they do blow their horns. As far as motel/B&B establishments, yes get reservations but always ask about their cancellation policy and will they work with you if your delayed by weather or mechanical breakdowns. I can’t speak too much about any of the establishments along the GAP, but along the towpath I personally recommend the Wernwood Inn in Paw Paw, WV or if you are going to push hard from Cumberland, you can stay cheep at the C&O Bicycle Shop’s bunkhouse for only $10 a night. Just remember to bring your sleeping bags if you plan to stay in the bunkhouse. Highly recommend that you avoid Little Orleans Lodge in Little Orleans and Candlelight Inn in Williamsport at all cost. Both are pricey, overrated, and have persistent cleanliness issues. The Tea Horse Hostel in Harper’s Ferry is very nice and a real bargain, also Laurie the owner is very hiker/biker friendly. In closing I want to invite you when you pass through Williamsport to stop at the Third Base Tavern for a libation and tell the bar tender that you’re “trail virgins”. Not to worry you’ll not be sacrificed in any pagan ritual but will be offered a shot of “Rocket Fuel” and a sharpie marker. After you down your shot, take a moment to scribe something on the ce

Gracie,
The Lockhouses are also available but you need to reserve those in advance with the National Park Service

I would just play it by ear, and that's what I did.

You get a lot more freedom and flexibility in your trip that way. There are campsites all along both trails that are free with no reservations needed. There are plenty of towns along the way where you can look for indoor accommodations for the nights you don't want to camp.

I rode from Pittsburgh to DC with two friends last June, and we stayed in inns/hotels the whole way. Our trip lasted a week, and we averaged about 60 miles a day. If you are in good shape and know how far you can ride each day, I would highly recommend making reservations. I would not want arrive at a town after riding 60+ miles and find there were no rooms available. If camping, you should have no problem winging it.

Looking forward to our annual Passage/C&O ride this Oct. I've been looking at the Amtrak site concerning roll on service but the info seems to all be old or just rehashed. Another question is biking from the end of the trail to Union Station to retrieve our vehicle. Been looking at the map but I'm not sure if there are additional connector trails or if we'd be on heavy traffic streets. Any comments/suggestions? Thanks.

Rick, has any "new" news come out on this? I keep hearing they're going to test it, but I've never heard of a time frame or a firm date that they'll make it an everyday, permanent thing. Any internet search for Capitol Limited Bike Roll-on Service only gives me news articles from 2013 that it will just be in a test phase (with no time defined). I can't seem to find any more recent news on this. Hopefully they decide soon and make it a permanent fixture!

John,
No. No new news. Just the same we're working on it, we'll let you know. At this rate I'll be 105 before Amtrak pulls their head out of their butts and get the ball rolling. I would use train service every trip and I average 3 per year along the Passage/C&O.

Did you try calling them? I've floundered on their website for far too long to not make Amtrak's employees lift a finger.

Reservations & Customer Service
1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245) or TDD/TTY (1-800-523-6590)

I haven't actually spoken with a human. Just on hold for several minutes and finally hung up. Tried maybe twice and gave up as my time is too important.

Spoke with a very pleasant customer service rep in California this afternoon. I was on hold for probably 8 minutes before speaking to a human. He was only able to tell me that the Roll On Service experience that took place last spring (I think) was a success and Amtrak was still in the planning stages. Not very useful info but better than just sweeping the idea under the carpet. He spent a lot of time checking with a couple of supervisors before relaying the info to me. Really nothing new but I guess we can keep hoping.

About all I can add to the saga is that the new baggage cars WITH BIKE RACKS have finally made their appearance. All 5 long distance trains originating from New York have them. I suspect the Capitol Limited will be next, if it doesn't already have them.

Unfortunately, that doesn't mean roll-on, roll-off bike service is any nearer. The only thing that makes me think such a radical idea (for Amtrak) will come about, is that two years ago baggage service was reinstated at several stations even when there is no agent on duty, another very radical idea.

Does anyone know if the Capitol Limited (DC to Chicago with a Pittsburgh stop) is still doing "testing" this season with Roll On Roll Off? Secondly, if so, can you get off at Cumberland, MD without boxing your bike up? News seems so hard find on this route. If offered I would 100% use it this summer. Here's to hoping.

Hi,
Thought you all might be interested looking at our pics from our trip. Here's the tumblr
http://candotowpath.tumblr.com/

Hi ya folks

I promised I'd update on the trail condition.

We have ridden from Cumberland to Williamsport thus far.

The trial has been soft in places and felt like it was sucking the tires.

There have been puddles and a couple wet places but in general, it has been a typical gravel trail.

We've made great time.

Thanks again to everybody who helped us plan this trip.

Hello all,

A buddy and I are interested in riding the C&O over an extended long Easter weekend (6 days) from Cumberland to DC.

We plan on camping along the way.

I am a little concerned that a lot of the accounts from people n the web are many years old.

Is the trail still in good repair?

Do you think it will be too muddy in early April?

I assume the water pumps will be still shut off, any other advice you could offer us?

Many Thanks in advance for any input.

Will be cooler, river will be high and lots of chance for April showers. some of the camp sites are in lower riverside areas.I thing the pump handles go on April 1. The trail has been in good shape but it is still close to the end of winter and damage at this point is unforseeable.

Thanks for the comment Lenny.

Cool is ok :) We are Canadians, it's in our blood! lol

So the trail is still in good repair then? And the tunnels will be open in April?

Thanks again

Last fall on my ride there were sections of the trail that were in pretty bad shape 9deep ruts, mud, downed limbs, etc.) We've had some pretty lousy weather since then including tons of rain and snow. If we can get some drier weather I'd think that the trail will be in fairly good shape considering. According to the website the pumps aren't turned on until April 15th so that's just about a week after Easter. There are plenty of water options and most are just off the trail. The only tunnel would be Paw Paw and that will be open unless there are repairs being made. You can give your butt a break by riding on the Western Md Rail Trail west of Hancock to near Fort Fredrick about 24 miles of smooth travel. Enjoy your trip.

Deep ruts...not 9 deep ruts. I've always rode my Trek Mamba on this route with 2" tires and 15/20 pounds or so of gear. The wider tires give you a bit more control and help get out of some of the ruts and allow you to roll over some of the limbs.

i personally wouldnt make my final plan til I got some feed back a little later this month. since your first post winter has continued in Maryland D.C. with a vengence.

Hi Lenny, folks. Thanks again everyone for the info .

We are about 2 and a half weeks put for our trip. How is the trail doing? The temps have been well above freezing for a while, just wondering if the snow has gone?

Do you guys think the trail will be reasonably passable? We both ride mountain bikes.

Thanks again

Trail conditions so far are muddy. All our snow has melted away and the stuff forecasted for tonight will not last till noon tomorrow. Generally speaking the pump handles are attached around the second week of April. The wells are treated with Iodine and has a peculiar aftertaste. Recommend filling up with good old tap water, which is plentiful if you look for it in either Nelgene bottles or H2O bladders. Spring along the towpath is generally rainy and there are some of the hiker/biker campsites that you have to pay attention to when pitching your tent or you’ll wake up swimming in your sleeping bag. Best rule of thumb is always pitch on the high ground and avoid the “bowls” where rain water pools, some times several inches deep! The condition of the towpath from Cumberland till about the other side of Williamsport is pretty, well, poor. The closer you get to Washington, DC (and all the Doctors, Lawyers and Supreme Court Chief Justices) the better it gets; and so does the traffic. If you are not a purist, you can avoid some of the muck and mud at milepost 136/Lock 56 and switch off onto the Western Maryland Rail Trail, which is packed black top like the GAP trail surface, for about 40 miles then swing back onto the towpath just west of Fort Fredrick state park and on to Williamsport, MD. Have fun, be careful and enjoy the adventure.

I will be completing the trail during this time and the plan is to camp as long as it isn't constantly pouring. We are leaving March 28th from Pittsburgh. I will try to let you know the conditions as we go. Anyone have any recommendations for Big Savage Tunnel? Detour? Up and over? How about detouring taking MD-47 around the trail meeting up on MD-36?

Can't thank you all enough for the advice and updates. We are getting excited. You know when the weather network starts forecasting on your trip dates.... you are getting close :)

Thanks so much Chris for the offer to post updates on the trail condition as you go. We will be running behind you by a few days.

I'm sorry Chris, I don't have any idea how to get around the Big Savage Tunnel? I wish we did, it is influencing where we start from.

If the board would like, we can post conditions as we roll through too. Twitter or a tumblr maybe? Let me know if there is any interest and I'm happy to oblige.

The WRMT is only 22 miles of paved surface.

Yeah I would love some updates. I'll be starting in Pittsburgh on the 6th. Any info on the trails would be great.

We'll post our experience with the trail. Conditions etc. Happy to!

The Big Savage Tunnel was opened for the season today!
http://www.post-gazette.com/life/recreation/2015/04/03/Illuminated-tunnel-on-Great-Allegheny-Passage-opens/stories/201504030309