C&O / GAP Forum

DC to PGH in August. Should I use my mountain bike or road bike withh 700c x 32 wheels? Saw some pics of C&O looking like a sloppy mess and wondering if the trail is full of ruts. Preference is for the road bike.

I used Bontrager Race All Weather 700 x 32 on my Trek 7.3 fx hybrid. No problems. The GAP you will be fine no matter how wet as it's packed crushed limestone rail trail. The C&O can be wetter and muddier and offer more "surprises" as its old canal trail that was used by mules and does indeed have tree ruts. You definetely have to pay attention more here than on the GAP where you can daydream while riding. Even though it didn't rain on me, it must have rained ahead of me in the trail because the C&O was wet in spots. It doesn't drain as well as the GAP and there is lots of tree canopy coverage so the sun doesn't get to dry it out as fast. Yeah you'll get a little muddy and wet if there's been rain but hey, you'll be going in August and it will be hot and sticky anyways. After trying to avoid the first few puddles, we just went right through them after. Kinda fun! The pumps at all of the C&O hiker biker sites have ample water to clean off. :-)

Thanks for the info. Hot and sticky I can deal with. Cold and wet I can't. Probably will do the road bike, will be traveling light but still may still have 10 lbs of gear which would bode well for the mountain bike. I'll do a few trips before then with my gear to test it out.

Steve, I really like John's comment, it's realistic, not like others I have read that just want to make it sound like they are pro riders and can do the trip in no time. So my opinion, either bike will do it and I have both type also but I use a mountain bike just to be more comfortable. Speed or comfort, after all day of riding it only ends up being 10 to 15 minutes differences. Enjoy the ride and GO PENS!

I have done this with a commuter bike 700X32. Had no trouble, but no suspension was tough on my shoulders. Doing it again this June, taking my mountain bike this time!

Encouraging comments, thanks. Leaning towards my commuter bike 700x32, although may put 35's on. Plan on staying PGH for a while and would prefer the road bike to get around. Go Pens!

John W is on target. The other thing to consider is fenders, which will keep you and the bike much cleaner if wet conditions exists.

Regarding the sometimes muddy conditions on the C & O, especially when approaching a puddle, I have found it best to just ride through the puddle. The mud on either side is often turned to slippery slush and a wipe-out can happen. You may get a little dirty, but the Potomac is right there to scoop up in your hands and clean up. As for bikes, either a mountain bike or hybrid is my choice--never a road bike. Beautiful as the trail is, it has some rocks and roots here and there. Nothing to worry about.

I used your guide. It needs updated. Had no cell reception and a medical emergency! Your guide doesn't list medical facilities for Connellsville, PA. I stumbled upon a pharmacy walkin clinic after asking a local. They ripped me a new bum hole for not knowing about the real hospital ER few bocks away. I showed them your guide nothing listed. EVERY milepost should have some medical ER listing and address even if it is miles away from the trail so we can drag our lifeless bodies off the trail until we get a signal or find the facility. Shame on me for not doing a better due diligence.

Thank you for pointing this out; I have added Highlands Hospital to the Connellsville listings. That's how we keep our listings updated - feedback from people with firsthand experience. Because you passed it along here, future trail users will know that there IS a hospital in Connellsville.

Pretty rude of the pharmacy people to expect visitors to their town to know in advance where to find town services. I hope you found friendlier locals along the rest of your trip.

Happy trails!

Excellent camping. We arrived at night and paid in the morning. Partner slept in back of Uhaul. I hung my hammock in the Picnic Shelter. Warm shower and coffee in the morning. YMCA members starting arriving around 5:00 AM.

Which YMCA did you camp at? Appears there is one on Baltimore Ave and one on Kelly Rd.

I just purchased the 12th edition of the TrailGuide published by the Great Allegheny Passage. According to the TrialGuide, all C&O campgrounds will become fee campgrounds after Labor Day 2016. Reservations will need to be made through www.Recreation.gov.

Beginning in 2017, the water from the pumps will be NON-POTABLE. You will need to bring a purification device or plan accordingly.

If that's how its going to be then Ive done my last ride on the C&O. I never planned my camping stops, I enjoyed the freedom of riding and stopping where wanted. bye bye C&O

I thought this was discussed a couple of years ago but was pulled back because the feedback was negative? I haven't seen any recent articles saying this is going to happen. Maybe the Trail Guide jumped the gun as it was proposed at their time of publication? If so, it's the quietest change from free to pay park I've seen.

Anyways, if it happens, it wouldn't affect whether I go or not. I'll still go and pay for the access to the campgrounds that are neatly spaced for trail users. Can't imagine it would be much.

None of this is shocking. Our government has literally starved the park service of funding for years and they are now forced to come up with alternate ways to fund the parks. In the C&O's case it's funding to keep the trail free of fallen trees, treating and testing the water pumps, mowing the lawns along the corridor, keeping the campsites nice, maintaining the port-a-johns, etc. God forbid we raise a single dime in taxes so we can have nice things. Sounds like it's either charge a fee or close the park entirely. I'll pay the fee if I have to.

John this was discussed just last year. Now it would be $20.00 at a hiker/biker and $40.00 at the big campsites and you have to plan where you are going to camp ahead of time into your ride. You just can't do that. No one knows what the weather is going to be like weeks or months in advance. If there are going to be any trees down or detours and if your body is going to do 30 or 60 miles that day. One year I camped out at the Paw Paw Tunnel campsite, The grass was 10 inches high and the hiker/biker ones were worse. The point is they don't offer you much and they don't even want to take care of the pumps anymore. They need to skip the camp ground fees and set it up like the Mickelson Trail. You can buy a 3 day or annual riding pass.The annual riding pass was $15.00 last time I looked. Wear it like a fishing license. That way you get a little money off of everyone riding the trail and not just get the people camping. The people that have money or lazy can still do a credit card run and not be affected. Sorry if that last comment made anyone angry.

Last comment doesn't make me mad, it just makes me wonder why any one would think rich or lazy are the only 2 reasons a person wouldn't want to camp. Not angry...just kind of dumbfounded by the lack of thought.

That said - I think your permit idea is a better option as well.

Yep that's me. Sometimes I just say things without thinking it through and get myself in trouble. :)

I just made a phone call to verify. The person I talked to said yes that the larger drive into campsites (5 of them) will be going up in price and that you will need online reservations but he did not know of any changes that would take place to the hiker/biker campsites and thinks them will remain the same. However he did say he was not 100% sure on the hiker/biker sites. Just wanted to pass this info along and that was straight from the office.

I understand that to maintain the C&O requires incoming revenue but hopefully it wont come to fee camping at the hiker/biker sites. It would just take away the freedom of the trail.

This issue has been discussed and tabled several times. I don't mind paying a small fee considering what you get for your money but at times it would be difficult to plan a number of camping spots in advance. The best they could do would be to install a lock box on the honor system. Part of the C&O usage is the many camping options and diversity of the terrain. I don't want to be forced to plan an itenerary that weather and terrain might change. Instead of pissing people off maybe the Park Service should concentrate on trail improvements.

Are there any weblinks you can provide that would allow us to verify (or contact to verify) the camping fees? Nat Parks Svc site didn't have anything I could find. Thanks,

I'm planning a trip on 9/08 to 9/14...Connellsville to DC, more information on this would be appreciated, I plan on using mostly hiker/biker sites but will use the bunkhouse in Hancock and the Antietam creek camp area

I normally don't respond to things like these because it tends to get misunderstood and blows up into something different. We pay taxes endlessly that get redistributed to all kinds of things, but the government is irresponsible and simply lazy. If not they come up with lame, pathetic, and all kinds of other excuses why they have to charge. $20 per person, $40 for other things. If that's the case then the trail should be in pristine condition: no pot holes, no fallen trees across the trail, no exposed hazardous roots, no hazards, and no other excuses. If they don't want to, then I'll take care of those things and keep the charges. The government sections are just another way to get more money for nothing. The GAP and Montour Trails around Pittsburgh are all taken care of by volunteers. They should get the money for doing the things they get done. Besides, what about the taxes in the first place that established the trails, poster or announcement boards, and other things. In my opinion the government groups are worse than little kids that are spoiled. They start something and eventually don't keep up with it. Seriously, how much does it really cost to cut grass, cut the branches and trunks of fallen trees, and a few other things. When the government shut down in 2013, within 48 hours all of the latrines were band-strapped closed, the handles were removed from the water pumps, and people were told to get off of the trail immediately. I know, a friend and I planned the whole summer to bike in the fall, but couldn't go to the bathroom or get water. That is beyond pathetic.

Relax. The C&O is free. The GAP is free. You pay no admission and never have. The C&O portion is part of the NPS. The same NPS that has seen budget cuts again and again by the same anti-tax crusaders in congress. The government spends money on all kinds of crap I agree but the NPS is not one of those. They do great work and great things. They're already running a skeleton crew at the C&O...it's quite amazing they keep the C&O maintained as good as they do. They we just exploring the possibility of charging admission since they're starved for funding but nothing came of it.

They will probably have to start charging for entry to the park. But what will happen is that the government will then conclude that they are self-funded and don't need tax money, so in the end the services will not improve. I agree they do a good job now, but if they can't sustain the potable well water, the trail will lose a lot of its appeal. When I biked the whole thing in one day (two Junes ago) I had only enough gatorade for the first 50 miles, after that it was all well water. Granted that's extreme, but the bikers and hikers even more so cannot carry enough water, and there are very few convenient places to stop without having to veer far off course. Please maintain the water pumps!

About water, there are portable filtration systems that are very inexpensive - so that would be my alternative.

When we do the trail, we want to find the best food & drink that's available. Any suggestiions? If there is a list available online, please let me know where to find it. Thanks

If you layover at Harpers Ferry. Its a short walk or ride to Boliver WVa, and the Anvil Restaurant.Right in town the Secret Six Restaurant. Both are good choices. At Paw Paw try lunch at the Liberty gas station, suprisingly good food, cheap

Mena's in Bolivar / Harper's Ferry is a great Italian place. No alcohol but you can buy it at the store a block away and carry it in. Desert Rose in Williamsport, MD is good. There's a little deli in White's Ferry MD that is a good place on an otherwise desolate stretch.

The other C&O canal biking website, "bikewashington" or something like that, does a nice job listing all the food/watering stops along the canal. There aren't that many, so it's helpful to plan a bit and don't pass up a stop if you don't know where the next one is!

Check out the "Unofficial Great Allegheny Passage' Facebook page

Hi I need to know if at the georgetown end of the c and o I will reach the Visitor's Center first or mile marker 0 first?? I am going to have our ride meet us at the 0 mile marker and I understand it can be tricky getting there?? This is where we want to end our ride. Please explain how to get to it. Does the towpath just keep going to 0??

Follow this map someone created on Google Maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1RIRak0PqixrY8u7PKf2SHsEkvmI&hl=en_US

Alo, here's a YouTube video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9kzs51zRsSY

Thanks!

That video helped me a lot. When I arrived at the "end" of the C&O trail part (at Rock Creek Parkway) but still needed to go the 3/10th of a mile more to Mile 0, it was as if I already knew which direction to go. I do wish the Park Service would mark it better with big, clear signs to tell you how to reach the terminus without the need for videos and Google maps. It shouldn't be a mystery.

Yeah, the C&O canal and towpath sort of veer away from the river in Georgetown. You have to know when to cut over to the Capital Crescent trail (Fletcher's boathouse (mile 3) is a good cutover, although a bit cheating as it gives you pavement for the last three miles). Then you ride under the Key Bridge along the G'town waterfront, walk your bike the last couple tenths through all the woozy partiers, across the front of Thompson's boathouse, and then you'll see the little obelisk across a tiny footbridge. You must go over and touch it to complete your ride!

Anyone starting sometime this week? May give it a go.

Is there a list of counties that the C & O Canal Bike trail goes through? I would like to pre-load the topo maps and they go by county.

Allegheny, Westmoreland, Fayette, Somerset in PA.
Allegany, Washington, Frederick, Montgomery in MD.
Washington, DC.

I hhave biked the c and o a few times and it has little hiker/biker campsites every few miles that are free for anyone. does the GAP have anything like this along its trail?

Yes but not as many as the C&O. :-)

Mile 89 Connellsville Adirondack Shelters
Mile 99 Roundbottom Primitive Campground
Mile 110 Cedar Creek Park Primitive Campground
Mile 122 Dravo's Landing Primitive Campground

My name is Ben. I'm a high school senior on a month long bike tour south. Coming out of Pittsburgh on July 4th, I will be taking the great allegheny passage to Cumberland. Then the C&O to DC. In dire need of a riding buddy along the way or at least some advice because of the impending rain.

Looking for male biking partner who is gay or gay friendly. I will bike any area of the C&O and even over night. Get at me and we can have fun

have you found a riding partner yet

Hey thx for the reply. I haven't yet? But call or text me 267-671-6078. I'm outside hancock but I can travel to anywhere. Thx

interested in biking this week maybe Wed or Thur. starting at mile 115 just out side Hancock are you interested

Seriously call or text me so we can set something up. I didn't know u replied because I'm not on here everyday. Let's have fun so get at me. Thx

I'm starting out in Pittsburg and riding Cumberland with a 10 year old on Tuesday. With all the rain, do I need to be concerned about flooding?

What is the trail condition near Harper's Ferry? We had heard it can be muddy after a rain.

Don't know about Harper's Ferry but pretty much anywhere along the C&O will be wet even days after it rains. Especially where there is heavy tree cover. The sun just doesn't get through where the canopy is thick and does not allow the trail to dry out as one would expect. That's not to say some spots won't be dryer than others but the majority of the trail will be wet after rain. Expect to hit puddles and get a bit of mud and water on you. After a while you just plow right through the puddles as it makes no difference (you're already covered in mud and sweat!). Just make sure you keep your tent, sleeping bag, and clothes dry in plastic bags in your panniers. Happy riding!