C&O / GAP Forum

This is my first time on the trail . I’ll be learning as I go.
I’m planning on driving to Cumberland then taking the train to DC on Thursday 10/5. Where I’ll begin the ride back at 11:30 am from Union Station I’m planning on camping on the trail .. if anyone is starting the ride around the same time that that knows the trail , it would be great to ride with others

Unfortunately you’ll be one day behind me. I’m arriving at Union Station on 10/4 to begin riding back to Pittsburgh on my ninth trip between the two.

Note, I’m surprised by your arrival time in DC. My train thru Cumberland doesn’t arrive in DC until 1:05PM.

Thanks for catching that. I meant 1:30
From DC

E ,
Read your comments about starting in Cumberland can you please tell me where there is long term parking that can be trusted?
Or for that fact anyone here this sounds interesting to me and the train is just right.

Ed, Everyone thanks for your time.

From the GAPTrail website:

Free overnight parking is allowed at the municipal parking lot in Cumberland at 16 Howard Street under I-68 which passes overhead. Other riders have indicated they have parked there in the past.

I was thinking that the Amtrak station had a parking lot . But there are so many things that I don’t know like do I have to make pre-arrangements for my bicycle. I read on some post that it’s $20 to transport the bicycle and others there’s no charge ….

Sprockets:

Although I've been through the Amtrak station in Cumberland a number of times I can't recall if there is overnight parking there or not. Regardless, the municipal parking lot on Howard Street is just a few blocks from the Amtrak station albeit along city streets.

If you are planning on taking your bike on the train you need a rollon "bicycle" reservation costing $20 to go along with your "personal" reservation. You need to make that reservation before arriving at the station insofar as there is but a limited amount of those bicycle reservations available. Not to throw a wet blanket on your plans, but they are rarely available on short notice. You should contact Amtrak to see if bike rollon reservations are still available.

Alternatively, if you can box up your bike you can ship it as "baggage" for similar cost as the rollon reservation.

There is long term overnight parking along Howard St. right underneath I-68 in Cumberland and within walking distance to The Crabby Pig and all kinds of shops. Parked there 4 weeks ago.

Large Parking lot. Not on the street.

Rivnuts.
I want to think you very much for your help with getting me started. After reading your last reply. I quickly made my train reservation and was able to get the last bike roll on spot available from Cumberland. I appreciate you …..
curious to know , do you set a mileage goal per day are do you just ride casually.

Sprockets:

Although I am retired I can't afford to be as casual as I might like. (My marriage still matters :-) My daily mileage is determined by the planned duration of my trip which depends on a number of factors including places along the route I plan to explore, the amount of daylight at the time of year and the need to reach the end destination on a given day. That said, I typically take 6 to 7 days to make the trip from Pittsburgh to DC or vice versa. That results in riding between 45 and 65 miles per day. Many take fewer days by riding more miles each day.

The length of each day's ride depends on available or preferred overnight locations. When camping there is more flexibility in planning each day's ride, especially along the C&O Towpath with the frequent hiker/biker (H/B) campsites. When planning to spend overnights in hotels and/or BnB's your daily mileage options are less since you are generally limited to the larger cities and towns along the route.

FYI, keep your eye on the weather. The forecast cold front at the end of this week along the route may bring some softness or puddles especially between Cumberland and Little Orleans. Using the WMRT rail trail that parallels the C&O Towpath on either side of Hancock MD would avoid some of those potential wet conditions beyond Little Orleans.

Have a great trip. If you have more questions don't hesitate to ask.

"Alternatively, if you can box up your bike you can ship it as "baggage" for similar cost as the rollon reservation."

In general the box-a-bike option is only available between stations with baggage service; and Cumberland doesn't have it. Also, some station with baggage service don't sell boxes. I doubt the arrival station needs to sell boxes, but has to have baggage service. But then it's Amtrak so you never know. So look it up by googling the the station (e.g., Pittsburg station) and click the "baggage" link. You will find that you can buy a box at Pittsburg or DC and ship it to DC or Pittsburg.

It costs a $10 service fee plus $15 for the box, although you can supply your own box.

Amtrak's box is always my choice because they are much bigger than the boxes you can get from a bike shop. All you have to do is remove the pedals, turn the handlebars sideways, roll the bike into the box and tape it up. If you are on your way home and someone is picking you up, you can save the box for next time. Otherwise, you just leave it behind at the station.

Ed I am waiting for this weather to break and will be doing the same thing driving down to Cumberland and train to D.C. to start the trail .
Did part of it last year in September and had to get off around near Hancock Grand daughter got sick.
If I do Start in December I'll let you know .

Does anyone have this app. for there iPhone ??
I was thinking of down loading it but instead pf paying $ 2.99 I would ask everone here.

Thanks for your time.
EZ

I’m not sure what app you are talking about because I didn’t see anything. Maybe I missed it. The C&O Canal Trust has an app in the Apple App Store. Here is some info from the Canal Trust’s website: https://www.canaltrust.org/plan/explorer-mobile-app/

I did see another app that cost $2.99 but don’t know anything about it. It seems the Trust’s app is a .99 download. You can read the reviews in the App Store.

Meh. Limited use. Static maps and a list of POI. Emergency info feature is interesting as it lists the nearest upstream and downstream access points and current position - could be handy when calling for help. But nothing you can't get from a proper map and tracking app like RideWithGPS.

Has anyone had issues with the 2" bike tire width limit on Amtrak's roll-on service routes? I have 2.2" tires on my mountain bike and wonder if I'll have a problem.

While I typically take bikes with 35mm tires for trips on the Capital Limited route with roll-on service, I’ve never seen anyone check or look at my or others’ bikes for compliance with the tire width limitation. That said I’ve not seen anyone try to take a fat bike on the train.

While I’m not certain, I think the bikes on that route are simply loaded in the baggage car along with other checked baggage and not in hanging bike racks where the tire width might be a constraint. Other routes may employ hanging racks, so I’ll leave others to comment on their experience on those routes.

In making preparations for my annual GAP & C&O bikepacking trip, last evening, I was surprised to find the price of the Amtrak Capital Limited return trip in coach was $114 in either direction for roughly the next three months. I don’t remember exactly what it was last year, but I think it was around $72. The bike reservations remain at $20.

The increase in the passenger reservation ticket seemed like a significant increase over what I paid last year. This may represent a recognition of an increasing demand in that route. The other, longer route option between the two cities was notably less but doesn’t offer bicycle roll-on service and takes a few hours longer and requires a change in trains.

At $114, it would be cheaper to drive if it was an option even with PA Turnpike tolls or make renting a car more attractive if you could find a bargain one-way rental.

The good news was that finding dates with available bike reservations seemed easier this year which might be because of reduced demand due to the increase in the passenger reservation cost.

During the pandemic Amtrak greatly reduced the consists2 (i.e., the list of cars in a train). The capitol limited was down to 1 coach, 1 sleeper, and a food service car at one time. They have been very slow to bring back the cars for various reasons. One of then is that short consists reduce the cost of running a train; and with the surge of customers since the end of the pandemic, they can charge pretty much whatever they want. Have you checked sleeper prices? I think the answer to your question is simple supply and demand.

We are planning to ride the GAP C&O starting from Pittsburg then taking the Amtrak back to Pittsburg.
Can we park our car at the Amtrak station in Pittsburg while we do the ride?
Thaks

There is no public parking at the Pittsburgh Amtrak station. There is public parking garage across the street from the train station albeit with a daily fee.

Grant Street Transportation Center Parking about $13.00 a day
The parking garage is called Grant street.
Hope this helps you.

Just got this email update and I coped and paste it for you all to read.


Closure for Pipe Replacement; Shuttle Service Provided
A 2.5-mile segment of the Great Allegheny Passage will be closed for a major underground pipeline replacement undertaken by Texas Eastern Transmission, beginning July 8 until mid-October. The segment is between mile markers 92 and 94.5. A free shuttle service for travelers and their bicycles will be provided by Trail Connect every 30 minutes, first-come, first-served, between 7:30 am and 7:00 pm, seven days a week. For details, visit www.trailconnect.com.

Hope this helps anyone doing the GAP.

Here is a Reddit discussion with some additional details:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaptrail/comments/1e27c1b/gaptrail_closure_shuttle_experience/

I just finished the GAP yesterday and rode through that section on Friday. The shuttle service was great. You load your bike on a trailer, it gets strapped down, and if no other riders are coming, they take you to the drop off point. Near Connellsville going toward West Newton, you have to go up to the campground area. The trail is closed and there is a big sign. Coming from West Newton, the trail is closed at the construction site. There is a construction person who can help you cross the construction zone safely. The van is a white van that is parked on the other side of the construction area. The van drivers are extremely nice and knowledgeable about the area. To not take the shuttle would be dangerous for most, if not all bikers. It would be a route on narrow roads that climb and climb. Again, the service is great.

With the White's Ferry croosing closed, this inquiry is a continuing and probably frequently asked question; however, with the closing othe White's Ferry crossing and the assumed lack of access to Leesburg, beyond Lock House 25, what are our lodging options.

Will the Leeburg hotels cross the river and pick you up and return you to the trail?

Our projected date for this need is Sept 20th/ mid week.

We are not overnight campers and would desire lodgings with a shower and bed linens provided.

Thanks.

The Leesburg hotels should consider your suggestion but I’m unaware of any that do. To my knowledge the last public lodging near the trail in route to DC is in Brunswick, MD.

You might want to consider a shuttle service to take you across the river to Leesburg for the night and continue on into DC via the WOD trail the next morning.

Perhaps a forum reader from the area has some better ideas.

I would contact hotels/motels in Leesburg directly. I know that one or more used to do shuttle pick-ups, but those notes are long-lost.

To Fred’s point, several years ago I once used a hotel shuttle from the Virginia/Leesburg ferry landing to a hotel in Leesburg to avoid riding on Highway 15(?). However that is a much shorter trip than having to pickup riders on the Towpath on the MD side of the Potomac. I suspect that is why such shuttles are likely no longer running. However, as Fred suggests, there’s no harm in calling the hotels themselves to inquire.

I don't know why you would try to get a hotel in leesburg to shuttle you at this point. If I was inclined to do something like that I would see about something from germantown or gaithersburg maryland instead. Leesburg is not close at all any more. ;)

WKR: Good point.

Does anyone know the status of the Catoctin Creek culvert replacement? The second link shows an actual new bridge. I have bittersweet feelings about the replacement. The first year I rode from Pittsburgh to DC was the year that the culvert washed out, so I have always had to cross the creek. The first year was from rock to rock, and then on the low bridge every summer since. :)

I also wished that they had had the funding to rebuild it in the original style of the culvert, but I understand why that was probably not feasible.

https://www.nps.gov/choh/planyourvisit/replace-culvert-82-bridge.htm
https://www.reddit.com/r/towpath/comments/1cfmhxf/replacement_bridge_north_of_point_of_rocks/

When I rode by about 2 weeks ago the new bride framing was up and they were starting on the deck.

Huh, I do not remember it being anything special. Wasn't it just a little wooden bridge? As a local I probably ignore a lot of interesting things since I see them all the time. ;)

That second link appears to be that “temporary low footbridge” that’s been there the last few years since the collapse of the original bridge. If they have begun repair of the original bridge as Lucas notes, that’s good news. It had been reported earlier that that repair work would begin in the Fall of 2023.

That second link appears to be that “temporary low footbridge” that’s been there the last few years since the collapse of the original bridge. If they have begun repair of the original bridge as Lucas notes, that’s good news. It had been reported earlier that that repair work would begin in the Fall of 2023.

Yes, they've definitely been working on getting a bridge up. I haven't been through there in awhile as the heavy equipment was chewing up the trail surface. I'm curious so I'll see about going over there this week.

I went ahead out at lunch today to look. On the way I could tell they had smoothed out the tow path surface from the gate at brunswick all the way to the bridge. The RVs tear it up and there was a bunch of additional damage from the heavy machinery. There is a metal bridge up. It's got stacks of wood on it that I assume will be the floor. No work was happening today.

I don't know if I can post links but I took some pics:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/g6TELapJYnvCwpMd7

1 is of the bridge from the side, the next just shows the machines sitting, and then a pic of the bridge where you can see the stacks of wood.

So the answer is I can cross this culvert in July? The weather here in Michigan has been quite cool. It looks like riding from Pittsburgh to D.C. could be comfortable. I'm a roadie that thrives on hot weather cycling. But loaded with panniers and such means a relief is helpful from scorching temps.

I just realized the bridge hasn't changed since that reddit link above was posted. I had the impression things have been sitting still for awhile but I'd forgotten about the picture in that thread. So, my news and pics were of no interest. ;)

Mark, unless there's a big storm that washes out the low bridge it's no problem to go through there.

WKR

Thanks for that info and photographs. Looks like they are well underway. Not that the temporary low bridge/walkway is onerous but it will be nice to have the towpath itself restored.

Thank you WKR. Will be departing 8 July, on my birthday. No greater way to celebrate it than a gap/co tour.

The low bridge actually can be onerous for inexperienced cyclists who choose not to dismount. I witnessed someone ride onto the bridge, put on his brakes while on top of the bridge where there's also some loose gravel, and go down hard since the gravel on wood might as well be ice. Destroyed his helmet and rang his bell pretty good.

It's no problem riding across the bridge even while loaded as long as you stay off the brakes.

As of Tues, 6/25 when I rode through southbound, the wooden decking of the new bridge appeared to be complete. The fill on either side, final grading, approach railings and signing still needs to be done.
The bigger challenge was bit further down the towpath with a huge tree that fell across the trail. It was about 3 ft in diameter.

My wife just showed me something on facebook indicating that the bridge is open. I'll have to head over there soon to see it for myself.

What time do the restrooms open in the mornings? Weekdays and weekend.

According to the GAP website the West Newton Visitor Center opens at:

11:00 AM weekdays
10:00 AM weekends

The Subway across the river opens at 9:00 as an alternate.

Plan to complete C&O at mile 0. What is an optimal meeting point and possible route for a vehicle to meet me upon completion? Driver will be coming from Great Falls area. Would like to minimize exposure to heavy traffic.

There is a pay parking lot adjacent to Thompsons Boat Center behind which is Milepost 0.

Thanks to RivNuts and all the posters on this site for great information enabling me to plan and ride. Did Cumberland-Hancock-Harper's Ferry-G'town 3-day itinerary. Hot start day bit lots of shade. Trail conditions were better than expected with dry weather and little mud, mostly avoidable.
The resurfaced sections were great. The few detours were short and not a major chore. Water was a challenge. With the pumps at the HB overnighters signed as requiring treatment, they don't seem to be getting much use and the few I tried were really hard to pump. The potable water one at Paw Paw was fine. I needed someone to hold my water bottles to pump with 2 hands at 15 mile Creek. Surprised to find a nice spigot at Seneca Creek aqueduct. PortaPots were plentiful and clean. People along the trail were wonderful.

Glad to hear you had a good ride. The conditions you describe sound “typical” even with the fallen tree although maybe not 3 feet in diameter! Even the hard-to-use pumps sound normal. As for the non potable water therein now, I now carry a Sawyer filter for drinking water if needed.

You’ll have to come back a few more times to experience “atypical” conditions such as flood residue, steady rains, significant mechanical failures and lengthy detours which are all part of the adventure. You’ll also have to take more time to leave the trail a little and see the towns and sights along the way.

Curiously, what was your most memorable part of the trip?

Rivnuts, I saw several river / towpath floods in the 70s and 1980. Glad one didn't happen this year. Lots of memorable moments from this ride - seeing the campsites, tunnel, Bill's Place and Sideling Hill Creek S.P. that I frequented 40+ years ago when adventuring with Scouts and then working as a canoe and backpacking guide for 4 summers based at the Straus Wilderness Area High Adventure base (now SHC S.P.). Lots of wildlife, too. Many deer, rabbits, squirrels, song and colorful birds, huge owl, fox, racoons, snakes and to top off the list, a big bear strolling up the towpath towards me a bit north of White's Ferry!

the families are making plans for burials in West newton cemetery in AUG. WE would like to be together in one house. Please let me know if the main house is available 570-580-9104

Unless the hosts of the Bright Morning BnB are monitoring this forum, I don’t think the rest of us forum participants can answer your question. Of course, the best and most reliable answer to your question would come from the Bright Morning hosts by calling them at 724-872-0792 and/or going to their website at www.brightmorningbb.com. You can get some insight into your question at that website as it has a table of room/house availability for the future including August and then querying the hosts.

I am looking to complete the C&O/GAP ride from DC to Pittsburgh. I am new to Bikepacking and was looking for a training program to help me prepare.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

Also, has anyone completed the trail during the beginning of November?

I can't speak to riding in November or a formal training program, but in the lead up to the first time I rode the trail, I started increasing the length of our day rides on the weekends until we were doing back to back 40 miles Saturday and Sunday. We did this over a 3 month period starting with 20 mile rides. And the weekend before we left we did a 50 mile overnight to test out all of our camping gear. The main thing for me was to get time in the saddle. Compared to most of the riding I had done to that point, the pace was pretty low, so I could ride all day during the trip. We finished our ride that year with three ~70 mile days.

November will be wetter with shorter days, so you will need to factor both of those into your route planning. I don't recall when they close a couple of the tunnels for the winter, but you should look into that.

Just start getting in rides and slowly building up your miles. Your body will adjust and get stronger. Since its flat you don't have to worry about hill training. You will be doing between 40-60 a day on your tour.

November might be cutting it close. Big Savage Tunnel has been closing on Dec 1 the last few years but if winter strikes early they can, and have, closed it earlier and there's no real detour available if it happens. Snow is a real threat at the continental divide that time of the year.

Andrew is right, the days are shorter, wetter, and colder. November days just leave you with less and less daylight. My suggestion would be to bump your tour back to October. The beautiful autumn leaves might still be up or at least on the ground and you'll have more daylight and no tunnel closure. Temps will be so much more pleasant also.

Let us know how you get on.

John

To add to the earlier remarks and having ridden the trail in late October, there is the possibility of some cold days and nights and even some snow at the higher elevations. I camped in Meyersdale last year in sub freezing temps. Not the most enjoyable trip I’ve made on the GAP. However you must be prepared for such conditions if they arise.

As for training, the trip is to develop the strength not to just be able to ride 40, 50 or 60 miles a day but to be able to do so on multiple successive days. If possible try to do a shorter, say 3-day trip before taking on the entire trail. That will give feedback on what you need to do and not do for your longer trip.

Good luck.

This is all great feedback. Thank you. It looks like I will play it safe and plan for August.