C&O / GAP Forum

The following was reported in the GAP website today:


"Amtrak has announced expanded bicycle capacity on the Capitol Limited, which parallels the Great Allegheny Passage and C&O Canal Towpath between Pittsburgh and Washington, D.C. As of now, the extra capacity — 12 bikes per train — is available through mid-September. Please contact Amtrak with questions about service and see this public advisory."

I've been guilty of harangues about the limited bike capacity on the Capital Limited route. I don't know what finally prompted Amtrak to change their policy but we are all beneficiaries of this change. Its been overdue but chapeau to Amtrak. This should allow more riders to avail themselves of this service and greater flexibility in scheduling.

Wonderful! We’ll done Amtrak.

12 bikes from 6 (or was it 8?) is an improvement and I would bet the extra bike tickets will get purchased justifying the decision.

John

Below is the actual advisory released by Amtrak:


Bike Capacity Expanded on Capitol Limited Trains 29 and 30
Effective June 3, 2022

Due to high demand, Amtrak is adding bicycle capacity on the Capitol Limited Trains 29 and 30, effective immediately through mid-September.

What You Need to Know
Each departure will offer 12 spots for bike reservations.
The route follows two popular biking trails between Washington, DC, and Pittsburgh — the C&O Canal Towpath and the Great Alleghany Passage.
Bicycle reservations are offered at a flat fare of just $20 and can be made during ticket purchase at Amtrak.com or the Amtrak app.
On the day of departure, check in with a station agent to get a claim check for your bike. At unstaffed stations — including Harpers Ferry and Cumberland — proceed directly to the platform and check your bike with the conductor upon train arrival.
Keep your baggage claim check to present at your destination to retrieve your bicycle.

I just got the last spot on a train in early October. I don't know why they only did it through Sept and not Oct. as well..

Maybe they will if the demand remains strong. We’ll see.

We are bringing a group through from East to West July 12. Is the trail open in the tunnel and what is the best go-around route if it is not open. Thanks!

Sharon: The tunnel is closed unfortunately. There is a well marked detour to get up and over the tunnel but you will be walking your bike both up and down due to steepness and not great riding terrain. With gear, the extra weight will make this slightly more difficult but certainly can be done with patience.

Scroll through the forum here, there’s been quite a few posts over the last couple months about the detour that have better details than my post here.

John

Riding Adventure Cyclings Chicago to NYC route and would like to take the alternate route using the GAP/C&O. I will be pulling my BOB trailer that I have toured extensively with but generally using paved roads. I have 700x32 tires on my Trek 520 and will try to hold the weight to a minimum in the BOB (camping gear etc). Does this sound like an enjoyable good ole time option or just “do-able”? More concerned with the C&O portion and the Paw Paw detour. Are there road options or shuttles around the detour?
Thanks

Chas:

It is generally a good option with 32mm tires although wider might be somewhat better, especially on the C&O. A single-wheel trailer would perhaps be better suited than a two-wheeled trailer since there is some single track at the northern end of the C&O. However, you could likely get through those sections with a two-wheeled trailer with some focus and patience. You may encounter a few downed trees as well if a storm has passed through recently that could require you uncouple your trailer from the bike to over or around them.

As you are aware the biggest obstacle for bikes and especially those towing a trailer is the Paw Paw Tunnel bypass detour up and over the tunnel. It would be an arduous task getting a loaded bike with trailer to traverse that detour and you certainly couldn't ride it but I'll stop short of saying you absolutely couldn't push up and over.

A recent transam rider towing a BOB trailer plotted his own rode detour option around the tunnel from 15-Mile Creek to north of Paw Paw. Below is his description of his alternate route.

"The ride started with about a mile on the flat and then we started climbing. None of the hills were particularly long but, several had some serious steep parts. The first one had a 16% grade section. Another one later had a 17% section. These are really steep. Stupid steep. Roughly half of the detour was on dirt roads. The last part was on highway. Not particularly busy but, the speed limit was 50. If the speed limit was 50 and you were driving in the middle of nowhere how fast would you drive? Also, at one point we are climbing up a long sweeping curve to the right, which makes it blind all the way. With the trailer I can’t up my effort and get it over with. I just plod along as best I can and it turned out alright for everyone."

In short, his alternate and likely any others was not very good.


There are shuttles available. The closest and likely with the least cost is offered by Dan who runs the Bikepath Bed and Bath (B&B) in Paw Paw, WV. You can reach him to arrange a shuttle at 304-671-5153.

You'll find other shuttle operators in Cumberland, Shepherdstown, et.al.

Are you planning to connect to the GAP from the Montour Trail, from downtown Pittsburgh or another route.

Appreciate your response- the BOB trailer uses a single wheel and even on paved surfaces that is the way to go in order to avoid pot-holes or other hazards. Sounds like I will need to just “suck it up” and and no shame in pushing the bike to get over the Paw Paw detour. Sounds like it is less than a couple miles and about 750 ft gain? Good to know that 32x700 tires will be adequate since I will be getting off the C&O near Hancock and on paved surfaces. Outside of Philly I will get on the Atlantic Coast route north to near the Delaware Water Gap where I will pick up the main Chicago to NYC route west bound following rural roads along I 80 and eventually south back to Pitt where I use the North Shore trail to Point State Park.
Piece of cake - ha

Chas:

Let us know how it goes.

Best wishes and be safe.

If I can be of any help or provide additional info, especially regarding the western Pennsylvania portion of your trip, just drop a note.

Hey any suggestions for long term parking?

Chas:

I'm a little confused about your inquiry about long-term parking since you are riding from Chicago to NYC. If you are inquiring about parking in Chicago, I have nothing to offer other than be careful. :-)

If you are inquiring about long-term parking in Pittsburgh, there are a number of parking garages downtown albeit at a cost. If you are looking for free parking downtown and are planning to stay one or more nights in a hotel, some of them will allow you to park in their lots for a few days. I'm sure some of the other Yinzers have their secret free parking spots around the downtown area but I'd be wary of recommending them to those not familiar with the area.

If you are not committed to parking in downtown Pittsburgh, there are some free parking options along the GAP trail not far from town. For example there is a large shopping center in Homestead, PA about 9 miles from downtown where you could park for a few days. There are a couple of hotels there as well along with many other large commercial businesses with large parking areas and lots of foot traffic

I'm not sure that I understood or have answered your question but if I've struck a nerve with any of these thoughts and want more details, just let me know.

Driving from Colorado and originally was going to get a rental car but pretty much priced out of that option. Since I am making a loop out of this ride (could be three weeks) I can start anywhere along the first part of the GAP. Believe I have found some good options to leave the car at one of the private campgrounds in the area.
Thanks

Chas:

With that additional information, i.e. starting anywhere along the first part of the GAP, here are some additional options using the safety of your car as the first priority:

1. The McKeesport police/firemen's parking lot. This is the lot where the McKeesport officers and firemen park while on duty. It also contains a number of police vehicles themselves.
2. The West Newton trailhead parking lot. West Newton is a quiet little town and the trailhead parking lot is immediately adjacent to the trail visitors station and across the trail and within eyesight of several B&B's there.

These along with shopping center parking lot in Homestead that I mentioned are some options along the first part of the GAP. I don't know which private campground you are referring to but I would think any of those would be good options as well. The first private camping area down the GAP trail from Pittsburgh is the GAP Trail Campground in West Newton. The KOA near Connellsville might be another option but it is nearly 60 miles from Pittsburgh.

I am going to be doing the great bike tour coming up and have never rode the trail before. Just curious if a drop bar gravel bike is suitable or if I should use mountain bike ?

A drop bar gravel bike will be fine. The GAP &C&O trails are a far cry from a technical trail that would benefit from wider flat bars. If you are riding self supported, a flat bar might however be better suited than drop bars if you plan to use a handlebar roll.

Thank you

The GAP website reported yesterday that the resurfacing project in Ohiopyle State Park is now complete and in good condition.

Looking for who was working behind the counter today around noon. I bought a soda and I need to ask you a question.

Ok peeps, I'm trying to chart the path from DC to Cumberland into Strava so that I can import it to my Hammerhead GPS Navigation system, but Strava wants to keep rerouting me onto the highway. Any tips before I pitch it out the window? I'm new to this. Please help!

From the little I know, Strava isn't the best for that. People tend to use RideWithGPS.

I keep waiting for Google to do all this stuff, but they haven't jumped on it...

When creating your route on strava, I find it much easier to do it on the computer (in a browser) rather than on your smartphone. Additionally, when creating your route, you can select "Use Manual Mode" which will allow you to click point on the map, regardless of whether or not they're on the road. The tool will then draw a straight line between points. I typically turn this tool on when going on paths that don't show up on Strava, and then turn it off when on paths that Strava doesn't struggle to select.

Besides, who really needs Strava on a trail like the C&O towpath? It is pretty hard to make a wrong turn, and there are mile markers every mile. I may be old fashioned (at age 73), but this is the perfect place for one of those things on paper.... What did they call them ? Oh, ya... a map. That will tell you all that you need to know.
It is important to remember that this little electronic device is nothing more than a stupid computer. It can only do what people tell it to do. A map gives you the info you need to make decisions on your own - without a false sense of confidence... For what that's worth.

As Mr. Fitz alludes to, an accurate Strava or Ride With GPS route file for the C&O Towpath from DC to Cumberland is not really needed. With the exception of a couple of detours along the way or any side trips into the adjacent towns that you may choose to do, a navigation display is of little value. The Towpath is a little like Dorothy's following the yellow brick road. It's hard not to follow it but there are no munchkins to assist.

A map of the detour between mileposts 88 and 89 might provide some assurance that you are following the detour signs correctly but is not necessary nor is a map of the Paw Paw Tunnel detour. You would do well simply to review these detours and the maps thereof that can be found via the National Park Service C&O Canal website to acquaint yourself of the general nature of them.

Also if you start your trip in DC on the Capital Crescent (paved) Trail that parallels the Towpath rather than the actual Towpath itself, you'll want to note where to crossover to the Towpath at Fletcher's Boathouse and Rentals to get on the Towpath and continue your trip.

This is my 3rd time riding both trails. The first year I went to a lot of trouble to import the entire route from Strava to my Element Bolt. I want to say after day 2 or 3 I stopped bothering to use it because it's usually obvious where you need to go. Plus, you don't really look at your GPS much anyway because the scenery is so beautiful.

There are a few places where you could make a wrong turn especially if you're tired and sometimes it's nice to get some reassurance.

What I would suggest is to download the correct route and local maps to your phone GPS and bring a small bluetooth speaker. This way you can play music and get audio directions when you need them :)

Also, having complete maps of the trail and surrounding areas is useful if the C&O is an absolute mess. This happened to me last year when it stormed every day and there were downed trees everywhere. Sometimes there are easy ways around the trail on side roads.

I keep Strava on at all times so I can track where I went but that's about it.

Can you leave your car for a few days at the Myersdale Station to complete the GAP trail? If so, who do I email to let them know I will be leaving it there? Thanks

If you call them or stop in, just inform them how long your car will be there, plate/car model, and contact info. They are used to letting people parking there for a week (or so) at a time.

527 Main Street
814-634-8654

In response to questions about availability of water along the GAP Trail, I prepared the following list of free water locations. This list does not include locations where you can purchase water or not within eyesight of the trail.

GAP Free Water Locations From Pgh to Cumberland

LOCATION TYPE MP REMARKS
Point State Park Fountain 148 Near Restrooms
Kennywood Park Spigot 137 Trailside
McKeesport Fountain 132 At Marina
Boston Fountain 128 Ballfield RF Fence
Dravo Cemetary Hand Pump 122 Trailside
Buena Vista Fountain 120 Trailside
West Newton Fountain 114 At Train Station
Cedar Creek Park Spigot 110 Trailside @ Camp Sites
Whitsett Spigot 104 Trailside at Pavilion
Roundbottom Camp Hand Pump 100 Trailside Non-Potabl
Connellsville Fountain 89 Trailside @ Campsite
Ohiopyle Fountain 72 Trailside @ Station
Confluence Restroom 61 At Outfall Campground
Rockwood Fountain 44 Trailside at Infobooth
Meyersdale Fountain 32 Trail @ Train Station
Frostburg Fountain 16 Trailside at Pavilion

I invite other riders to add to or correct this list.

I just completed my DC to Pittsburgh ride this morning. Lots of observations which I'll summarize in another post but this post relates to the camping facilities at the Trailside Inn in Frostburg MD. The Inn itself is at the top of the switchback path from the trail up to the train station. The tent campsite however is behind the Inn up a steep switchback wooden ramp with still more terraces to climb after you leave the wooden ramp. If you are riding self-supported with a fully loaded bike, it is nearly impossible to push your bike up to that area. Further, there are no toilet facilities up there nor water and the area is rather unkept.

In short, I would not recommend camping there. The other facilities, including the private rooms, hostel area and showers are down at the lower level elevation of the Inn and may meet one's needs.

June 3-5 i ran the CO from Cumberland to DC self supported in 2 days and 15 hours setting a new FKT. As i am sure you know there is water along most of the CO readily available from hand pumps. My plan is to run the GAP in september. My question is: are there pumps/readily available water on the GAP? Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Water availability along the GAP is somewhat different than along the C&O. There are only two traditional hand pumps along the GAP and only one of those is potable water. However, there are numerous potable water fountains and spigots along the way on the trail itself and places to purchase water within sight of the trail in some locations. The fountains are pretty obvious but some of the spigots may be a little more difficult to spot, especially at night. Also, the GAP passes through several small communities as well where you could politely ask a resident for water if needed.

The longest distances (>15 miles) between available free water would probably be between Whitsett and Connellsville (15 miles), Connellsville and Ohiopyle (17 miles), Confluence and Rockwood (15 miles), Meyersdale and Frostburg (16 miles) and Frostburg and Cumberland (16 miles).

I made a list of available water locations along the GAP. I'll have to find that list or recreate it for your use and others.

Hi, all. I have a Public C7 commuter upright bike and am wondering if it might be able to handle a long distance like this given that it’s pretty flat. Thoughts? Do I need to invest in a more expensive road/gravel bike to do this kind of mileage?

A little more information about you, your bike and trip itinerary would be helpful in offering a more informed opinion about the suitability of using your Public C7 Dutch, stepthrough commuter bike to ride the GAP Trail and/or C&O Towpath. Here are some observations however.

The Public's steel frame, caliper rim brakes, 1X7-speed drive train and 35mm tires should be fine for such a trip so long as they are in good condition before departing. Depending on your condition as well you could find the gear ratio challenging if riding east to west up the hill on the GAP Trail from Cumberland to the Eastern Continental Divide. If riding the other direction down the hill you should be fine. There are some hills on the detour between mileposts 88 and 89 of the C&O that could be a challenge in either direction. Then there is the Paw Paw Tunnel detour on the C&O which presents a different challenge regardless what type of bike you ride.

Based on past experience, my only concern might be the wheels themselves. The 32-hole rims should be ok for most loads including the weight of the rider and gear. If you are not carrying a lot of gear, i.e. more than you might carry around town when commuting, you should be fine. However, if you are planning a self-supported ride with lots of camping gear, clothes and food then I'd be a little concerned about the wheels. I'd be cautious to check that all the spokes are properly and uniformly tensioned before starting and check them each day. The good news is that there are bike shops along the way that could remedy most problems so long as you recognize them which is true for any bike.

The fenders on the C7 would be very useful if you encounter any rain along the way.

These are just my thoughts. Others may have different opinions and experiences.

I am planning to ride the gap and want to take the train from DC to Pittsburg. Amtrak will not answer all my questions. Are there any restrictions on what types of camping gear I can or cannot carry on the train? Since the train arrives near midnight how close are hotel accommodations from the station? Where is the best place to pick up supplies, food, and fuel for biking and camping along the Gap?

Bruce: I’ve not heard of restrictions on what you can/cannot take on a train. It’s not as restrictive as an airplane. Sounds like you are considering bringing a gas canister for camp cooking? You should be able to just bring it with you.

Many hotels near the Amtrak, maybe a small walk or ride.

There’s an REI right next to the trail in the Southside of Pittsburgh.

Mr. Laubach:

I've taken the Capital Limited in both directions a few times including a couple of weeks ago. They have never checked or even inquired about my carryon bags that included a jet stove gas cylinder, Swiss Army knife etc. The Amtrak instructions also require you remove all your bags from your bike before putting in on the train. I generally do that to ensure they do get lost or redirected in transit. However, on the latest trip I did leave my frame bag on the bike as it is rather time consuming to get on and off the bike securely. No one at the station noticed or objected. In short, Amtrak is a rather loose operation in these regards compared to the airlines. I guess they don't have as far to fall. :-)

There a several hotels within a handful of blocks of the Pittsburgh train station with the closest being the AC Hotel by Mariott. It is only a couple of blocks from the station. Within another couple of blocks there is a Hampton Inn, Homewood Suites and Drury Plaza Hotel. All of these appear in Google Maps. I also spoke with a young rider that had located an AirBnB nearby as well. So you have lots of options.

As John W notes there is an REI for bike and camping items just a couple of blocks east of the GAP Trail as it leaves town and crosses the Hot Metal Bridge. You can locate it in Google Maps as well. About 7 miles further on the trail in Homestead, PA there is a large shopping center with a large Giant Eagle grocery, Dick's Sporting Goods, Target and Lowes.

I hope this answers your questions. If not or you need other info about the GAP, just drop another note.

I just wanted to say "thanks" to Rivnuts, JohnW, and others who consistently respond to questions on this Forum with such thorough and helpful answers. You make the Forum pleasant, useful and highly informative for a lot of readers (often silent, but very appreciative). Many thanks, fellas.

Ditto to all the thanks expressed by Jim. This is one of the best trail blogs around - because of folks like you.

We’re planning a ride down the trail and towpath next week, wondering what current conditions are.
Appreciate any insights.

As of last week when I rode the trail the conditions were generally "ok". Aside from the area upriver from Dam 4 and, to a lesser degree Dam 5, and the much-discussed bypass detour up and over the Paw Paw Tunnel, the trail was rideable. As usual, the worst section was between Cumberland and Spring Gap with puddles and shallow soft mud that is typical after rains. There is some single track in that stretch that would make towing a two-wheeled trailer somewhat of a challenge but not insurmountable.

Once you are on the portion of the Towpath that has been resurfaced, the trail was damp but solid and smooth.

As reported, there was considerable debris that washed up on the causeway along Big Slackwater that required pushing or lifting your bike to get through. Some of that debris may have been removed by now. Also that deep mud was nearly impossible and dangerous to ride through but ride through I did. Previous riders had created a path through the mud that allowed me to get through it albeit with some trepidation. By now I expect that area may have dried up quite a bit making passage there easier. I would recommend you get a current update from passing riders as you approach that area but I have to believe conditions are better than when I passed through there last week.

We’re planning a ride down the trail and towpath next week, wondering what current conditions are.
Appreciate any insights.

In riding upriver back to Pittsburgh on the C&O Towpath last week I encountered the putrid smell of dead flesh. Looking into the adjacent canal I saw dozens of large, dead fish (presumably carp) in the shallows of the canal. It appears these fish were carried over from the river into the canal at a couple of locations upriver of Dams 4 and 5 during the heavy rains this month. These locations were likely the emergency overflows or fill ditches between the canal and the river. When the river level receded, the fish were trapped in the canal.

It may take a while for the stench to subside but don't be surprised as you approach these areas.

The announcement below is taken from the website for Amanda’s Place Restaurant in Paw Paw, WV.

“Hey y'all, I want to give a big thank you to everyone who has supported us the past six years. I have met a ton of great people and have grown close to alot of you. After much consideration we have decided to permanently close on June 1,2022. It wasn't an easy decision but we feel it's time. Please be mindful in the process of closing certain foods will become unavailable. Thank you all again!!!!”

Darn….this is a sad loss for the C&O. I met Amanda two years ago during my trip. What a great person and caring owner. Food was wonderful as well. A gem in super small town. I hope someone establishes a restaurant in Paw Paw (I know, I know, the gas station has a grill but it’s not the same). The choices are slim between Cumberland and Hancock. Sorry to hear this…

John

I suspect that there has been a significant reduction in patrons there given the Tunnel detour. Fewer people are likely travelling through and staying in Paw Paw making the business case for operating a business there more difficult.

Fun, quick place to stop to fuel the body for the next however many miles left in your day. You can also buy some supplies if needed.
Cute place.

Try the Cowboy Burger - This nice lady makes great food.

Fun, quick place to stop to fuel the body for the next however many miles left in your day. You can also buy some supplies if needed.
Cute place.

Try the Cowboy Burger - This nice lady makes great food.

Do June weekends make camping difficult, especially without reservations?

Thanks!

Not at all. The only one that will likely have more people is Swains Lock because it has car parking and is close to DC. Your typical C&O hiker/biker site is reachable only by foot or bike and most are spacious enough even if others are there, there’s plenty of room. If it was too crowded, there’s always a site down the trail 5-7 miles.

This does not include paid sites. I know Antietam Creek is a pay site but also has car camping and I've seen lots of people there.

Thanks for the reply. How about Ohiopyle area?

The GAP is a different beast as it’s not a national park so not as many Hiker/Biker sites. There are only four free sites and not in Ohiopyle.

Ohiopyle might get busy on weekends and the one campground (Kentuck) is up a hill a quarter mile from the trail, paid site. I’ve never stayed but I can’t imagine the campsite fills up. I would still 100% call and reserve a spot on a weekend just to be sure. You have to book through Ohiopyle State Park in advance to ensure availability.

We set out on 5/17 ride from PGH to DC. I had to leave at Cumberland for a funeral. My wife went on to Williamsport (actually mile 110), then we both went to another funeral. We were actually rescued from some predicted bad heat and some bad trail conditions. Thanks for those good reports. We were exhausted- because we were out of condition (my opinion) and our ages [71 & 73] (my wife's opinion). The upslope from PGH to the Continental Divide is mild, but inexorable. It was a lot steeper this year than in 2012 or 2005. Slope matters. Distance matters. Comfort on your bike matters. Still, they are a great pair of trails, and we will some day make the entire trip. And thanks to Dan in Paw Paw for shuttle support and advice for my wife, traveling on her own. #CelebrateTrails #BikeAnywhere

We, three women, left PHG on the 18th and made it to DC on the 24th. One day later than planned. The C&O between Cumberland and Paw Paw had plenty of big puddles after the storm and rain in the morning of the 2oth and took longer than planned but was not horrible. However, the area right after the detour near Williamsport, MP 90, was particularly bad with lots of debris to climb over and thick nasty mud that we were unable to bike through (plus it was a 90 degree day!). Cleaned bikes at the Big Slackwater boat ramp. Word is that in the other direction there is a longer detour indicated that helps you avoid all this. We did not see those signs. The detour around MP90, described also on the NPS C&O website, takes you along a house where a dog named "Bubba" lives...it is on the top of a high hill. If he is out, it is best to get of your bike and walk by. He apparently likes to chase cyclists and bite some a few weeks ago. Dan helped us around the Paw Paw tunnel too. If you call him ahead of time, we called him the night before, he is often available: 304-671-5153. Great guy. Owns a B&B too. We stayed at the canal cabins in Paw Paw. Great place with free laundry. Cabins have comfortable beds, airco, coffee, etc. The people at the country store close by are wonderful.

Lots of discussion regarding the path conditions and recent flood damage. Cycled 5/20/22 from Williamsport to HF. All good until a detour off the C&O at about MP 90 around some sort of impassable damage. After the detour the path east was a challenge with debris piles that you must climb over and some really sticky mud that is mostly impossible to ride. By Big Slackwater boat ramp it is all over and you can clean the mud off your bike in the river at the ramp. There is some trail damage further east but is really limited to washouts and bumps from the material washed away. Not the end of the world but the couple miles of mud and debris will take some time to pass and a heavy bike will be a challenge.

Thank you very much for that report as I head north and west from DC on Monday. I think the detour around MP90 is the one at McMahons Mill which has been there and is described in the NPS C&O website.

Did you leave the Towpath anywhere other than there?

Rode C&O from Cumberland to Little Orleans today. Route mostly dry, firm and very passable. Some puddles and mud but very avoidable and not an issue. Hiked over Paw Paw tunnel on the well marked trail. A bit steep but very doable provided your not pushing a massively loaded bike. The trail has some 14% incline so a really heavy bike can be a challenge. The hike is 90% dry. Minor mud. The path east of Paw Paw is neglected and overgrown but easily passable, dry and firm. The camp sites are pretty dank and buggy. Enjoyable and easy ride.

Fabio:

Thanks for your clear description of the trail conditions in those trail sections. If you are riding on toward Shepherdstown and Dam 4 after the WMRT drop us a note on those trail conditions if you get a chance. Thanks.

Williamsport tonight.

Head east to Harpers Ferry tomorrow with anecdotal reports of mud, mud and detours. Supposed to be hotter than a $2 pistol tomorrow. Look for updates.

Ciao Fabio,
If it helps, I’m headed out on a TransAm in the morning!
Misery loves company?
A presto!
And Rivnuts is doing some GAP blast also!