C&O / GAP Forum

My buddies and I are doing the trail again this Fall DC to Pittsburgh camping. Any suggestions on unique or special places to camp? We know about the Lock Houses and primitive camp areas. Also the scenic over look near Big Savage tunnel. Heard there is an old 19th century cemetery 30 miles outside of Pittsburgh. Anyone know exactly where?

Thanks in advance!

I just finished my fourth DC to Pittsburgh trip and camped all but one night where I could not find a primitive or commercial campground within reason. At other times, I've camped all along the GAP. I'm not sure what your definition of a "special" campground might be. That said, the outfall campground near the base of the Youghiogheny River Dam is a different setting although it is a typical state park campground. The "chicken coop" at the Hancock, MD bike shop is a unique overnight location.

All the hiker/biker trailside primitive campsites are essentially the same although some are better maintained than others. In general, the camp sites along the GAP are nicer in my opinion than the hiker/biker campsites along the C&O Towpath.

I believe the scenic overlook you are referring to near the Big Savage Tunnel is at/near the Mason Dixon Line. I'm unaware of any campsite at that location.

I believe the 19th century cemetery about 30 (probably closer to 35)miles from PIttsburgh you are referring to is just east/south of West Newton, PA. Indeed it is old but not overly interesting in my opinion. There is no campground there although there is one just a couple of miles beyond at Cedar Creek Park. There is also a campground at Dravo Cemetery about 25 miles outside Pittsburgh but nothing particularly special there either in my opinion.


One of the more oddball sites along the GAP is a $2 million glass sculpture in Dunbar, PA at the end of the Sheepskin Trail branch off the GAP south of Connellsville. It was donated by Donald Trump back to the small PA town where the azure blue glass was originally made. The sculpture is in a small addition to a small Dunbar Historical Center. If you plan to go there, call ahead to see when it is open or when you would be there. In the past they have offered to open the building and show you the sculpture if you call ahead. Note the trail there is rather rough, but ridable, along some railroad right of way.

I have camped at Cedar Creek...nice location and seemed better maintained than the Hiker Biker campsites along the C&O.

Also camped at Ohiopyle State Park...I would not recommend, as it is an extremely steep uphill into the park from the GAP. Not exactly what I wanted to do after a day of riding and with my bike fully loaded. Campsite we chose was ok, but required us to bring our bikes down a set of stone stairs, across a creek and then back up into the campsite...also all uphill to bathrooms/showers. If you decide to stay here, you may be better off choosing a car site, as they seemed to be closer to everything.

I have read good things about Husky Haven in Rockwood, but do not have an opinion, as I have never stayed there.

We camped at Evitts Creek HB right outside of Cumberland. Site was large and fairly flat. It was pretty noisy though--train tracks are a stones throw away, right across the towpath and canal. Site is located where trains sit and idle. It is also located near an airport....on the night we were there there was a helicopter flying, so it was noisy to say the least. It is close to the city making it easier for non hiker bikers to be in the area as well. Take that as you will... if we could have made it to Irons Mountain or further, I think we would have enjoyed the night better.

15 Mile Creek in Little Orleans is a great campsite...it is not free, but has beautiful views of the rivers edge and is close enough to Bills Place that you can set up camp and then go grab a bite to eat.

If you get a chance, check out Pedalshift on Youtube. He has video reviews of every HB campsite on the trail.

Yes to Husky Haven. Fair price, nice showers and nice camp sites.

Yes to Pedalshift. I know of the C&O and GAP because of the Pedalshift podcast.

Thanks to Pedalshift also. His video helped me navigate the creek crossing near the Brunswick washout last summer. Probably would have ponied up and taken the shuttle had I not seen that. Saved money and time (though I did get wet feet!).

The old cemetery is Dravo Cemetery, there is a Boy Scout supported (public) campground right there with two Adirondack shelters and potable water. Very nice. I stayed there a couple of nights ago and probably 4 times in the past year. It is about 27 miles from the end of the trail in Pittsburgh.

One thing of note if you do camp at Dravo Cemetery. There is a racoon there that will take almost anything not strung up or tied down. My first night there it almost got off with someone elses first aid kit. I saw it pawing at my bags but it didn't get anything. Last weekend, the racoon made off with a gear bag with a rider's contacts. So just be ready to string up anything attractive and securely close and fix your bags to something. I was actually in one of the shelters and the racoon didn't bother us at all.

I can personally attest to the raccoons at Dravo Campground. Just this past week I camped there and Ricky the raccoon, and his spouse and child, were all trying to rummage through my panniers when I woke up at 3am and shoo'd them away. After hanging my food up, they returned an hour later (4am) attempting, in vain, to get to my food. So yes, Dravo has a nice population of well fed raccoons.

I think I was in the next tent over from A Moore last Saturday night at Dravo Cemetery. :)

I always hang my food, but they smelled something interesting in my handlebar bag this time and pulled out one of my spare tubes and left it on the ground. Just glad they didn't find that edible!

A small group of us are planning a quick trip from Sheperdstown to Williamsport. I have just learned of the nearly one mile closure at mile 88. There is a detour to get around it but it looks like it will add a lot of time, much of which we will be pushing our bikes. Has anyone done this? Is it a big deal, and how much time will it add. Thanks for any advice.

Jim:

The closure of the C&O around MP88 is about a 3 mile detour on country roads with a few short hills. I would expect that the only part you'll have to push are the 30 to 50 feet to get up to the detour or down to the C&O itself from the detour. Those paths are steep and were covered with shredded bark for traction in late May but not ideal for riding especially if you are carrying or towing a load on your bike. It shouldn't take that long to traverse that detour, perhaps 30 minutes tops.

Others may have had a different experience than I had.

Thanks so much for the info. I neglected to mention that we are doing an out-and-back, so we would be doing the detour twice. Nothing you have said, however, makes it sound like much of a hardship. Our alternative plan would be to start in Hancock and head east to Williamsport, then return to Hancock the next day. Any thoughts on which route would be more scenic, have better trail conditions, etc. Your help is much appreciated.

Rivnuts may have more details to share than I of what’s more scenic but if you do the Hancock turnaround, you will be able to utilize the paved Western Maryland Rail Trail (WMRT) which parallels the C&O. You’ll only be on it for 9-10 miles each way but it makes a big difference to your overall enjoyment.

Please note….if you reach Mile 0 on the WMRT, you’ve gone too far. The interchange is at approx mile 0.75, Ernstville Rd. so you’d need to go back 3/4ths of a mile. On the C&O the interchange to the WMRT is around mile 114.

John

Well John W has put me on the spot about the scenery of each of your out-and-back options:

Williamsport to Shepherdstown or
Hancock to Williamsport

I don't feel strongly about one of the options being necessarily more scenic than the other. The latter includes Fort Frederick which is rather unique as well as Little Pool and Big Pool.

The former includes the causeway along Big Slackwater as well as Shepherdstown itself. Further you could leave the trail and go over to the Antietam National Battlefield if you have an interest in Civil War history.

I, myself, like the ride from Williamsport to Shepherdstown a little better. This is mainly because of Shepherdstown itself. I like that historic small town with the university buildings. That said you have to ride up or push up the switchback from the trail up to the bridge to cross the river to get there.

Others may have different opinions and reasons.

Rivnuts and John, thanks so much for the Intel. We are still deciding which route to take. There are pros and a few cons for either direction, but either way, we expect to have a great ride.

You’ll have to let us know which one you chose and what you liked or disliked about your trip.

We are sticking with the original plan, starting in Shepherdstown and biking to Williamsport. Your input, combined with info from the C&O people via phone yesterday, convinced us that the detour shouldn't be a big deal. By the way, I agree that Shepherdstown is a wonderful little town. My wife and I have put our kayaks in there a number of times. It will be my first time setting out from there on a bike.

Jim:

If you plan on riding up into the town of Williamsport and have not done so previously, make note of how best to get across the canal from the trail. The best way to get bikes across are along the walkway across Lock 44 before you get to Cushwa Basin. Otherwise you would have to carry your bikes up the steps and over the pedestrian bridge closer to Cushwa.

You can see this in the satellite view of the trail map of that area.

Another option for crossing the canal at Williamsport is to ride across Salisbury St. It is steep coming from the canal side into town, but an easy option when return to the canal.

For the detour at MP88, you could also leave the trail at Dam 4 (between MP85 and MP85) and take the high-water detour for when Big Slackwater is flooded. I really didn't like the wood mulch portion of the current detour when we rode PGH-DC last month, but I really like Big Slackwater, so for me it's a toss up about which detour might be preferable.

The following was reported in the GAP website today:


"Amtrak has announced expanded bicycle capacity on the Capitol Limited, which parallels the Great Allegheny Passage and C&O Canal Towpath between Pittsburgh and Washington, D.C. As of now, the extra capacity — 12 bikes per train — is available through mid-September. Please contact Amtrak with questions about service and see this public advisory."

I've been guilty of harangues about the limited bike capacity on the Capital Limited route. I don't know what finally prompted Amtrak to change their policy but we are all beneficiaries of this change. Its been overdue but chapeau to Amtrak. This should allow more riders to avail themselves of this service and greater flexibility in scheduling.

Wonderful! We’ll done Amtrak.

12 bikes from 6 (or was it 8?) is an improvement and I would bet the extra bike tickets will get purchased justifying the decision.

John

Below is the actual advisory released by Amtrak:


Bike Capacity Expanded on Capitol Limited Trains 29 and 30
Effective June 3, 2022

Due to high demand, Amtrak is adding bicycle capacity on the Capitol Limited Trains 29 and 30, effective immediately through mid-September.

What You Need to Know
Each departure will offer 12 spots for bike reservations.
The route follows two popular biking trails between Washington, DC, and Pittsburgh — the C&O Canal Towpath and the Great Alleghany Passage.
Bicycle reservations are offered at a flat fare of just $20 and can be made during ticket purchase at Amtrak.com or the Amtrak app.
On the day of departure, check in with a station agent to get a claim check for your bike. At unstaffed stations — including Harpers Ferry and Cumberland — proceed directly to the platform and check your bike with the conductor upon train arrival.
Keep your baggage claim check to present at your destination to retrieve your bicycle.

I just got the last spot on a train in early October. I don't know why they only did it through Sept and not Oct. as well..

Maybe they will if the demand remains strong. We’ll see.

We are bringing a group through from East to West July 12. Is the trail open in the tunnel and what is the best go-around route if it is not open. Thanks!

Sharon: The tunnel is closed unfortunately. There is a well marked detour to get up and over the tunnel but you will be walking your bike both up and down due to steepness and not great riding terrain. With gear, the extra weight will make this slightly more difficult but certainly can be done with patience.

Scroll through the forum here, there’s been quite a few posts over the last couple months about the detour that have better details than my post here.

John

Riding Adventure Cyclings Chicago to NYC route and would like to take the alternate route using the GAP/C&O. I will be pulling my BOB trailer that I have toured extensively with but generally using paved roads. I have 700x32 tires on my Trek 520 and will try to hold the weight to a minimum in the BOB (camping gear etc). Does this sound like an enjoyable good ole time option or just “do-able”? More concerned with the C&O portion and the Paw Paw detour. Are there road options or shuttles around the detour?
Thanks

Chas:

It is generally a good option with 32mm tires although wider might be somewhat better, especially on the C&O. A single-wheel trailer would perhaps be better suited than a two-wheeled trailer since there is some single track at the northern end of the C&O. However, you could likely get through those sections with a two-wheeled trailer with some focus and patience. You may encounter a few downed trees as well if a storm has passed through recently that could require you uncouple your trailer from the bike to over or around them.

As you are aware the biggest obstacle for bikes and especially those towing a trailer is the Paw Paw Tunnel bypass detour up and over the tunnel. It would be an arduous task getting a loaded bike with trailer to traverse that detour and you certainly couldn't ride it but I'll stop short of saying you absolutely couldn't push up and over.

A recent transam rider towing a BOB trailer plotted his own rode detour option around the tunnel from 15-Mile Creek to north of Paw Paw. Below is his description of his alternate route.

"The ride started with about a mile on the flat and then we started climbing. None of the hills were particularly long but, several had some serious steep parts. The first one had a 16% grade section. Another one later had a 17% section. These are really steep. Stupid steep. Roughly half of the detour was on dirt roads. The last part was on highway. Not particularly busy but, the speed limit was 50. If the speed limit was 50 and you were driving in the middle of nowhere how fast would you drive? Also, at one point we are climbing up a long sweeping curve to the right, which makes it blind all the way. With the trailer I can’t up my effort and get it over with. I just plod along as best I can and it turned out alright for everyone."

In short, his alternate and likely any others was not very good.


There are shuttles available. The closest and likely with the least cost is offered by Dan who runs the Bikepath Bed and Bath (B&B) in Paw Paw, WV. You can reach him to arrange a shuttle at 304-671-5153.

You'll find other shuttle operators in Cumberland, Shepherdstown, et.al.

Are you planning to connect to the GAP from the Montour Trail, from downtown Pittsburgh or another route.

Appreciate your response- the BOB trailer uses a single wheel and even on paved surfaces that is the way to go in order to avoid pot-holes or other hazards. Sounds like I will need to just “suck it up” and and no shame in pushing the bike to get over the Paw Paw detour. Sounds like it is less than a couple miles and about 750 ft gain? Good to know that 32x700 tires will be adequate since I will be getting off the C&O near Hancock and on paved surfaces. Outside of Philly I will get on the Atlantic Coast route north to near the Delaware Water Gap where I will pick up the main Chicago to NYC route west bound following rural roads along I 80 and eventually south back to Pitt where I use the North Shore trail to Point State Park.
Piece of cake - ha

Chas:

Let us know how it goes.

Best wishes and be safe.

If I can be of any help or provide additional info, especially regarding the western Pennsylvania portion of your trip, just drop a note.

Hey any suggestions for long term parking?

Chas:

I'm a little confused about your inquiry about long-term parking since you are riding from Chicago to NYC. If you are inquiring about parking in Chicago, I have nothing to offer other than be careful. :-)

If you are inquiring about long-term parking in Pittsburgh, there are a number of parking garages downtown albeit at a cost. If you are looking for free parking downtown and are planning to stay one or more nights in a hotel, some of them will allow you to park in their lots for a few days. I'm sure some of the other Yinzers have their secret free parking spots around the downtown area but I'd be wary of recommending them to those not familiar with the area.

If you are not committed to parking in downtown Pittsburgh, there are some free parking options along the GAP trail not far from town. For example there is a large shopping center in Homestead, PA about 9 miles from downtown where you could park for a few days. There are a couple of hotels there as well along with many other large commercial businesses with large parking areas and lots of foot traffic

I'm not sure that I understood or have answered your question but if I've struck a nerve with any of these thoughts and want more details, just let me know.

Driving from Colorado and originally was going to get a rental car but pretty much priced out of that option. Since I am making a loop out of this ride (could be three weeks) I can start anywhere along the first part of the GAP. Believe I have found some good options to leave the car at one of the private campgrounds in the area.
Thanks

Chas:

With that additional information, i.e. starting anywhere along the first part of the GAP, here are some additional options using the safety of your car as the first priority:

1. The McKeesport police/firemen's parking lot. This is the lot where the McKeesport officers and firemen park while on duty. It also contains a number of police vehicles themselves.
2. The West Newton trailhead parking lot. West Newton is a quiet little town and the trailhead parking lot is immediately adjacent to the trail visitors station and across the trail and within eyesight of several B&B's there.

These along with shopping center parking lot in Homestead that I mentioned are some options along the first part of the GAP. I don't know which private campground you are referring to but I would think any of those would be good options as well. The first private camping area down the GAP trail from Pittsburgh is the GAP Trail Campground in West Newton. The KOA near Connellsville might be another option but it is nearly 60 miles from Pittsburgh.

I am going to be doing the great bike tour coming up and have never rode the trail before. Just curious if a drop bar gravel bike is suitable or if I should use mountain bike ?

A drop bar gravel bike will be fine. The GAP &C&O trails are a far cry from a technical trail that would benefit from wider flat bars. If you are riding self supported, a flat bar might however be better suited than drop bars if you plan to use a handlebar roll.

Thank you

The GAP website reported yesterday that the resurfacing project in Ohiopyle State Park is now complete and in good condition.

Looking for who was working behind the counter today around noon. I bought a soda and I need to ask you a question.

Ok peeps, I'm trying to chart the path from DC to Cumberland into Strava so that I can import it to my Hammerhead GPS Navigation system, but Strava wants to keep rerouting me onto the highway. Any tips before I pitch it out the window? I'm new to this. Please help!

From the little I know, Strava isn't the best for that. People tend to use RideWithGPS.

I keep waiting for Google to do all this stuff, but they haven't jumped on it...

When creating your route on strava, I find it much easier to do it on the computer (in a browser) rather than on your smartphone. Additionally, when creating your route, you can select "Use Manual Mode" which will allow you to click point on the map, regardless of whether or not they're on the road. The tool will then draw a straight line between points. I typically turn this tool on when going on paths that don't show up on Strava, and then turn it off when on paths that Strava doesn't struggle to select.

Besides, who really needs Strava on a trail like the C&O towpath? It is pretty hard to make a wrong turn, and there are mile markers every mile. I may be old fashioned (at age 73), but this is the perfect place for one of those things on paper.... What did they call them ? Oh, ya... a map. That will tell you all that you need to know.
It is important to remember that this little electronic device is nothing more than a stupid computer. It can only do what people tell it to do. A map gives you the info you need to make decisions on your own - without a false sense of confidence... For what that's worth.

As Mr. Fitz alludes to, an accurate Strava or Ride With GPS route file for the C&O Towpath from DC to Cumberland is not really needed. With the exception of a couple of detours along the way or any side trips into the adjacent towns that you may choose to do, a navigation display is of little value. The Towpath is a little like Dorothy's following the yellow brick road. It's hard not to follow it but there are no munchkins to assist.

A map of the detour between mileposts 88 and 89 might provide some assurance that you are following the detour signs correctly but is not necessary nor is a map of the Paw Paw Tunnel detour. You would do well simply to review these detours and the maps thereof that can be found via the National Park Service C&O Canal website to acquaint yourself of the general nature of them.

Also if you start your trip in DC on the Capital Crescent (paved) Trail that parallels the Towpath rather than the actual Towpath itself, you'll want to note where to crossover to the Towpath at Fletcher's Boathouse and Rentals to get on the Towpath and continue your trip.

This is my 3rd time riding both trails. The first year I went to a lot of trouble to import the entire route from Strava to my Element Bolt. I want to say after day 2 or 3 I stopped bothering to use it because it's usually obvious where you need to go. Plus, you don't really look at your GPS much anyway because the scenery is so beautiful.

There are a few places where you could make a wrong turn especially if you're tired and sometimes it's nice to get some reassurance.

What I would suggest is to download the correct route and local maps to your phone GPS and bring a small bluetooth speaker. This way you can play music and get audio directions when you need them :)

Also, having complete maps of the trail and surrounding areas is useful if the C&O is an absolute mess. This happened to me last year when it stormed every day and there were downed trees everywhere. Sometimes there are easy ways around the trail on side roads.

I keep Strava on at all times so I can track where I went but that's about it.

Can you leave your car for a few days at the Myersdale Station to complete the GAP trail? If so, who do I email to let them know I will be leaving it there? Thanks

If you call them or stop in, just inform them how long your car will be there, plate/car model, and contact info. They are used to letting people parking there for a week (or so) at a time.

527 Main Street
814-634-8654

In response to questions about availability of water along the GAP Trail, I prepared the following list of free water locations. This list does not include locations where you can purchase water or not within eyesight of the trail.

GAP Free Water Locations From Pgh to Cumberland

LOCATION TYPE MP REMARKS
Point State Park Fountain 148 Near Restrooms
Kennywood Park Spigot 137 Trailside
McKeesport Fountain 132 At Marina
Boston Fountain 128 Ballfield RF Fence
Dravo Cemetary Hand Pump 122 Trailside
Buena Vista Fountain 120 Trailside
West Newton Fountain 114 At Train Station
Cedar Creek Park Spigot 110 Trailside @ Camp Sites
Whitsett Spigot 104 Trailside at Pavilion
Roundbottom Camp Hand Pump 100 Trailside Non-Potabl
Connellsville Fountain 89 Trailside @ Campsite
Ohiopyle Fountain 72 Trailside @ Station
Confluence Restroom 61 At Outfall Campground
Rockwood Fountain 44 Trailside at Infobooth
Meyersdale Fountain 32 Trail @ Train Station
Frostburg Fountain 16 Trailside at Pavilion

I invite other riders to add to or correct this list.

I just completed my DC to Pittsburgh ride this morning. Lots of observations which I'll summarize in another post but this post relates to the camping facilities at the Trailside Inn in Frostburg MD. The Inn itself is at the top of the switchback path from the trail up to the train station. The tent campsite however is behind the Inn up a steep switchback wooden ramp with still more terraces to climb after you leave the wooden ramp. If you are riding self-supported with a fully loaded bike, it is nearly impossible to push your bike up to that area. Further, there are no toilet facilities up there nor water and the area is rather unkept.

In short, I would not recommend camping there. The other facilities, including the private rooms, hostel area and showers are down at the lower level elevation of the Inn and may meet one's needs.

June 3-5 i ran the CO from Cumberland to DC self supported in 2 days and 15 hours setting a new FKT. As i am sure you know there is water along most of the CO readily available from hand pumps. My plan is to run the GAP in september. My question is: are there pumps/readily available water on the GAP? Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Water availability along the GAP is somewhat different than along the C&O. There are only two traditional hand pumps along the GAP and only one of those is potable water. However, there are numerous potable water fountains and spigots along the way on the trail itself and places to purchase water within sight of the trail in some locations. The fountains are pretty obvious but some of the spigots may be a little more difficult to spot, especially at night. Also, the GAP passes through several small communities as well where you could politely ask a resident for water if needed.

The longest distances (>15 miles) between available free water would probably be between Whitsett and Connellsville (15 miles), Connellsville and Ohiopyle (17 miles), Confluence and Rockwood (15 miles), Meyersdale and Frostburg (16 miles) and Frostburg and Cumberland (16 miles).

I made a list of available water locations along the GAP. I'll have to find that list or recreate it for your use and others.

Hi, all. I have a Public C7 commuter upright bike and am wondering if it might be able to handle a long distance like this given that it’s pretty flat. Thoughts? Do I need to invest in a more expensive road/gravel bike to do this kind of mileage?

A little more information about you, your bike and trip itinerary would be helpful in offering a more informed opinion about the suitability of using your Public C7 Dutch, stepthrough commuter bike to ride the GAP Trail and/or C&O Towpath. Here are some observations however.

The Public's steel frame, caliper rim brakes, 1X7-speed drive train and 35mm tires should be fine for such a trip so long as they are in good condition before departing. Depending on your condition as well you could find the gear ratio challenging if riding east to west up the hill on the GAP Trail from Cumberland to the Eastern Continental Divide. If riding the other direction down the hill you should be fine. There are some hills on the detour between mileposts 88 and 89 of the C&O that could be a challenge in either direction. Then there is the Paw Paw Tunnel detour on the C&O which presents a different challenge regardless what type of bike you ride.

Based on past experience, my only concern might be the wheels themselves. The 32-hole rims should be ok for most loads including the weight of the rider and gear. If you are not carrying a lot of gear, i.e. more than you might carry around town when commuting, you should be fine. However, if you are planning a self-supported ride with lots of camping gear, clothes and food then I'd be a little concerned about the wheels. I'd be cautious to check that all the spokes are properly and uniformly tensioned before starting and check them each day. The good news is that there are bike shops along the way that could remedy most problems so long as you recognize them which is true for any bike.

The fenders on the C7 would be very useful if you encounter any rain along the way.

These are just my thoughts. Others may have different opinions and experiences.